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I played WoW Classic for the first time ever last week. Now, I’m going to play WoW Retail for the first time ever TODAY. RIGHT NOW.
I’ll, of course, share my thoughts on the difference between the two experiences 😎
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The chatter that says the world scales isn't entirely correct though? The world scales up, not down so you couldnt go to badlands as a level 20 but you can stay in elwynn as a level 40 if you like
Damn indeed, I'm pretty much having the exact same feeling about the tutorial, showing all available quests and objectives and scaling. Retail is pretty fun if you play very hardcore but that's about it.
Retail wow revealing that Sean doesnt have 2FA on his Blizzard account.
Im so glad retail and classic both exist, so people who prefer either one can just play it and enjoy it
to be honest the video is a perfect example for why all this handholding seems necessary
"if every decision can be made…. none of them can" -syndrome incredibles, 2004
He doesn't understand what he wants is in the end game for retail rather than in the start like classic, but the problem then is the reliance on addons to do everything for the player. Hot button topic.
From just watching this and the classic videos it really feels like:
– Classic is an open world RPG first with multiplayer features as well.
– Retail is a multiplayer game first with open world RPG features as well.
recently got into wow, but I never really enjoyed the questing aspect. I primarily enjoy the endgame content of Raiding / Mythic+ dungeons. I treat leveling a character on retail to max level to be the actual tutorial for how to play the class, as you are slowly introduced to each new ability/ talent tree. It's a flow state of doing enough individually taxing things that accumulate to an overall enjoyable experience.
unless i already knew people who played at the endgame, I don't think i would have stuck around long enough to see it to then enjoy it.
The level scaling in WoW is objectively a net positive. And chat never clarified that the whole world doesnt scale DOWN to you, it can only scale UP to you. Every zone still has a MINIMUM level required to go in, but now you can stay in it for longer. Elwynn Forest was a 1-10 zone, now it is a 1-20 zone. Westfall was 10-~20, now it is a 10-60.
The point of "oh I leveled, but so did the mob, so I dont feel much stronger" is only half right. The only thing that the mob got was slight increase in damage and health, but you got a talent point AND stat increase.
They implemented this because it was very disjointed to level in Elwynn, go to Westfall for maybe 2 or 3 hours, then have to go to Duskwood, be there maybe an hour, then go to Dustwallow, then travel continents to get to a level 40 zone, then travel expansion continents to get to 50, then travel another continent to get to 60.
It streamlined it to let people play one expansions worth of content.
Scaling allowed Sean to leave the Tutorial area, go back to the human starting zone, and get xp for killing the Blackrock Spies and the Wolves and the corresponding quests. Had there been no scaling, there would have been no kill xp and the quests would have barely given 1% xp. And he was still 2 shotting the mobs
1:59:41 nailed it. Blizzard intention was to provide a smorgasboard of experiences that would lay ahead of the player to compel them into pursuing the world further. But As you said, that's not at all what beginning (or even veteran) players want out of a starting experience. They want to be nobodies starting in a sleepy backwater of the game where nothing happens. That's tantalizing, that tickles the imagination.
Game suggestion: Chants of Sennaar.
I mean the real suggestion is Outer Wilds, but….😢
I'm the last one to defend what retail has become, but regarding the giant boar sequence, I think it was intended to introduce you, a brand new user, to the possibility of quirky and specialized vehicle quests.
But primarily, I think they wanted to show you a bunch of damage numbers flashing on the screen, because that's the dopamine rush some people need to be interested.
Wow no wonder I play classic, this retail bullshit looks annoying
I don't buy the "wow classic is about exploration, and wow retail is about killing bosses with your friends" excuse. The two are not mutually exclusive, and classic has both.
It's a bit of a shame that Sean is avoiding the multiplayer parts of these games because I do think that's where the differences are most tragic. In addition to classic giving more opportunities for self-driven goals, it also almost requires you to make other players part of the solution to those goals. In retail, not only does the game set all the goals for you, other players are never part of the solution to those goals. And by that I mean, other players' choices and behaviors. Classic is a social game where you and others work in concert toward your own goals. Retail is a silo'ed game where no other player's decisions or behaviors can possibly impact your experience, because that would be inconvenient.
not gonna lie….. spent the whole time thinking how lame it is that backseatboss was just waiting for day9 to get to the dungeon portion to que up at the same time so he could be in there with him.
"You saved me HOP ON!" Blizzard…… I thought we took out all the sexualizing women stuff… well at least after all this time we finally have black NPCs.
I kinda disagree in terms of the gameplay loop being different in classic and retail…. even like he said the gameplay in classic was slow and dull but there was risk of death sure… so it FELT like more gameplay. but the retail tutorial experience is just everything you would get in classic wow just condensed and simplified and they hold your hand so yea theres little risk of failure. so yea its a much more rushed experience but it also gives you an idea of "is this game for you?" i know many people who got bored of classic wow on its original release because its so slow paced and takes too long to get to the games strong point which is dungeon and group play.
"play where you want, when you want" Day9 "that fucking sucks" lol i mean thats more for people who have been playing 18 years want to level a new character but dont wanna do the same old boring zone progression they want to customize their experience. i will say its a double edged sword. before it felt cool going back to old zones and seeing how much stronger you got. whats even worse is end game in wow now not only scales with you but the enemies would scale with your items because when they add new content if you were doing the top tier end game then the new content would just get steam rolled so they want that content to still be a challenge for you so getting better gear feels meaningless.
what was worse was in the first itterations it was too much so you would just unequip some items to be able to clear faster. really dumb idea. but you will see now at a start of an expansion you could go from pulling a group of 5 monsters and killing them easily…. now you leveled up once…. oh shit i died to pulling a group of 5 of those same enemies. now i can only handle 3….. then you level up again… shit i can barely kill 1 now…. better roll tank spec so i can survive now. so while yes the level scaling makes sure all content stays relevant it also actually makes you feel weaker as you level because you need to get beaten down from the previous expansions power creep to now need to gear up again to be strong
im new to wow but i played a monk on retail and was 3v1ing ogres at lvl 12 an theyre the same lvl. one was even a lvl above me. retail is like living life as woman. easy street till youre 30
Imagine playing a game like Elden RIng, then BG3, WoW Classic, and then WoW retail waiting to find out things on your own…. Oh my sweet Day9, you are so adorably naive…. #CamelForLife
Sean, you didn't ask why, but here's why.
Over the years there have been a couple of level and stat squishes.
Classic started with 60,
then it was +10 for expansion 1 and 2 (TBC and WotLK),
then +5 for expansion 3 and 4 (Cataclysm and Pandaria).
Then again +10 for 5th, 6th and 7th expansion (WoD, Legion and BfA).
At lvl 120, expansion no.8 (SL) squished all of that to lvl 50, with max being 60. (because values for items and damage were getting ridiculous)
Since then, we had expansion 9 (DF), with +10 levels, and expansion 10 is around the corner.
We are going to be at max lvl 80 this summer with new expansion.
As someone on reddit wisely said,
"They 1. Never balanced it 2, Will never Balance it. 3.Most likely Don't know wtf to do with it". Hence the scaling.
Also it's not uniform across the world. (citation needed)
* Starting Experience:
– Levels 1-10: Starting zones specific to each race or Exile's Reach, a universal starting experience for all new and returning players.
* Default Leveling Experience:
– Levels 10-60: Currently, the default leveling experience for new players is through Battle for Azeroth content using Chromie Time. This will transition to Dragonflight content later this year as the new expansion releases.
* Chromie Time Alternatives to Default Leveling Experience:
– Levels 10-60: Players can choose to level through the content of previous expansions via Chromie Time, including:
* The Burning Crusade
* Wrath of the Lich King
* Cataclysm
* Mists of Pandaria
* Warlords of Draenor
* Legion
* Battle for Azeroth
* Shadowlands
* Scaling Outside of Chromie Time:
– Levels 10-30: Classic Zones in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.
– Levels 10-30: Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King zones.
– Levels 30-35: Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria zones.
– Levels 35-40: Warlords of Draenor zones.
– Levels 40-45: Legion zones.
– Levels 45-50: Battle for Azeroth zones.
– Levels 50-60: Shadowlands zones.
* Current Expansion Content:
– Levels 60-70: Dragonflight – latest expansion and its new zones, quests, and endgame activities tailored to the newest expansion storyline and mechanics.
As someone who played WoW back in classic and then for the first two expansions, I also didn't appreciate the boar scene. I think what happened is that, over the many years of trying to keep the game fresh Blizzard constructed more and more elaborate forms of quests. And then they try to make this new tutorial and because they don't know how to do it normal anymore they end up putting in all these strange types of quests that they've created. But weirdly, those quests only made sense to be introduced to a player after many kill ten boars quests had gotten so stale that Blizzard had to invent new types of quest. It seems super weird because its like you're playing "future quests" from the future of the game.
You are a very intelligent person, however we live in the millennial world. I have watched many videos of first Time players an easy as that I am it is they don't know what the hell to do.
Day 9 started a side job as a bouncer. I can see him out there with a cap on and some chains keeping the riff raff out of LA's finest clubs.
That rant about death as a learning tool is one I agree with, but I also have many friends who hated classic because they died too often and didn't seem to learn anything from it
Egg Man Sean has returned
Do spells just not cost any mana in retail wow? what is going on
Blizzard month has taught me that blizzard is just useless and gone now
graphics mean nothing in retail when the game is garbage as hell and i hope it dies cause blizz doesnt listen and they are dumb asf
Elbow grease is a derogatory word for a sweaty person. Ergo a classist dig against laborers.
2:14:00 Genuinely did not know that. What's the point of exploring if there's no danger anywhere?
I like how the tutorial guy tells a bathrobe-clad Mage to, "Stand your ground, don't run away." Yeah, don't kite enemies like a sissy with your cowardly slowing spells, let me smash you in the face with my sword because that's how this game is played. Better yet just quit now and come back as a real class like Warrior.