Read more about World of Warcraft ➜ https://worldofwarcraft.mgn.gg
Today, I want to come and talk about Defensives in World of Warcraft. As time has gone on, defensives have certainly gotten more potent. Every class rework as well has increased the defensive power of specs in the game. I’m also joined by @theunwow to help convey some of the arguments to the viewers as well!
If you made it this far:
Pls watch my stream: https://www.twitch.tv/tettles
Pls join my discord: https://discord.gg/EvvTfX8
Titanforge discord: https://discord.gg/6BcJ3Tu
Patreon – https://www.patreon.com/MoonkinMonthly
source
I like not being entirely reliant on the healer all the time. I do PUGs mostly and prefer to be able to save myself from time to time.
like, remove most defensives give each spec 1 each on a 1min and give healers the power to carry groups
Idk man, the healers I play with struggle with "throughput" quite a bit. Some examples:
Jagged nettles bleed
Archdruid Gledalis bleed
Rezan tank bleed
Igira healing absorbs
Deios infinite corruption
TOTT crushing depths
Waycrest etch
Priestess Alunza transfuse
Nymue passive damage
Fyrrak anything
Your mic is fucked, bro
For those wondering if they are crazy thinking he sounds different, you aren't (hopefully)
Your own stats showed DPS Dk's having some of the most deaths, yet you were pointing out that DKs passive veteran of the third war was too powerful.
Kinda contradicts the whole point you're trying to make.
mistweaver defensives is just crazy right now
expel harm heals more than a warlock stone or a pot
its spammable and you also have healing elixirs on top of that
people saying we have too much never played feral or boomkin 😂 ultra trash heal and def cd wise. all hybrit healing is utter garbage
i think the issue is that right now that blizzard is trying to balance and yet still find variety in the survivability of a huge number of dps specs. Healers kits are solely about throughput (outside of disc that has some mitigation focus in their kit). i feel like tanks and healers can have their kits expanded to mitigate groupwide damage and take that off the of the dps. Its easier to create unique and balanced mitigation profiles on a fewer number of specs, it gives tanks and healers more to do than just try and recover or prevent one shot scenarios, and dps survivability can become more uniform.
The main issue with insane defensives is that it makes big assumptions. It actually affects lower level keys more. Blizzard tunes and designs the amount of damage an ability does around defensives as they want it to be threatening. In those lower keystone levels where your DPS just dont press buttons, the healer is having to heal WAY more than they should.
I have to do so much more healing in 11-17 keys than I do in 18-20s, and its a pretty shocking difference most of the time. Tie this in with missed kicks/CCs and it makes the entry level healing experience very bad.
Toning down defensives actually makes healing a lot more beginner friendly in an indirect way.
I play survival hunter so idk about this defensive creep. I will get one shot by anything that I can't turtle…
The disparity between classes is the main issue. I do agree that the best place for defensives to be for everyone is less than what at least some of the tankiest classes have now though.
I found it interesting that one of your points advocates taking the defensives away from classes and putting it back in the hands of healers yet it widely acknowledged that many players poorly use their present defensives and blame healers for their death.
Personally believe one of the primary issues with healing and over healing is the amount of self healing across non healer specs. This directly contributes to the abundance of overheating.
When I have personally dabbled with healing lower M+ keys and Heroic Raids I found I was either over healing or people died when I was not. I acknowledge I am not the best but finding the middle ground seemed impossible.
man can you stop making videos and getting everything nerfed….
idk but keys were way more fun in SL.
Playing Mm hunter is down right scary on Tyr weeks.
This happens every xpac and always will, the worst example was probably bfa where everyone just abused vers corruptions too.
Stamina scales completely relative to ilvl while dps is a small exponential.
We'll always inevitably hit an end of xpac where the main struggle is just not getting annihilated while dps checks become easier and easier.
My best suggestion would be to adjust mob hp scaling I guess? Like increase the mob hp scaling per key level by 1-2% per season of the xpac, but leave damage scaling at 8%?
It was pretty telling when people were coming in and easily doing week 1 20s this season on 440 alts they suck at how this was going to go down.
It would probably be even worse if blizz hadn't made secondary stats linear with ilvl back in bfa.
Defensives and non-healer healing have definitely got out of hand. Some classes/specs have a lot and others have little or none.
shaman needs defensives especially enhance
Balance druid just needs a 10% passive dr..they always seem to take more magic.damage than any other spec. Nfi why feral has the most deaths as they get extra.defensives over balance.
Love your new vids! Keep em coming❤️
why are you saying veteran of the 3rd war is a issue for DK's we have had it since inception if I'm not mistaken…. now dps having access to will of necro is a little op I agree, but the healing numbers for DK hasn't changed since forever, were unkillable mostly because yes extra stamina and DS, Icebound, AMS…. Stamina alone helps yes but compared to other melee, me specifically as a FDK have the shortest arms of most melee dps and we need to leverage our kit to do any dps… also being in the middle bottom I wouldn't say makes us broken… Ret on the other hand not having to be in melee and having a ton of passive and on use defensive/heals is why they are above tanks for deaths/
Tettles makes a video about defensive.
"hey guys, tanks are getting nerfed!"
Crying in hunter. When you are in PUG and you have to hero. 900k health does nothing if you have one mitigation and one self heal on 2 min CD
WCL death chart is okay for broad strokes, but Feral and Moonkin have the same toolkin except feral has access to survival instincts and has higher movespeed. Feral is objectively tankier and easier to live on than moonkin, and it has more deaths. The mage specs all have very similar tools, yet frost has like 50% more deaths than fire. That chart can be taken at a glance as a trend of defensive power, but there is more going on than meets the eye there.
This is what happens when you make these talent trees and just have to fill them with a bunch of BS passives. The previous talents were far better than this. They just needed to make them a bit more even. Who in their right mind would pass on the 20% stam in any situation. Just a bunch of fake talent choices to fill the tree. I know this video is about defensives, but why do people have to talent into primary and secondary stat increases? From the beginning these talent trees were just a lazy way to try and get classic players to try retail and appease anyone who thought talent trees are good.
the dollar store mic quality is killing me
As a healer main for literally forever its 100% why Cata was the best expansion for healing. They slowed casts down, made mana something to worry about – people hated both of those.
But yet, barely anyone just instantly died (not everyone had defensives back then – it was a healer job to keep people alive). Rot damage is just infinitely more fun to heal than people getting chunked and having to respond to multiple people in seconds.
M+ is always going to hit a limit of dying instantly to random stuff cause that's literally how infinite scaling works. If you don't die to stuff you'll instead hit a point where you wont have enough dps to time a key – those are the only two restrictions of stopping you timing a 99. So it has to be one or the other. It doesn't matter which one it ends up being because you're still stuck in bringing specific specs either way – one because they're tanky and can live – or two because they do the most dps of any spec.
Option one allows more specs into m+ because there's usually more than 2 specs that have decent defensives. Option two would just be healer/havoc x3/tank.
Monks give stamina buff? Which spec is he referring to? Can someone fact check this bc I main a mistweaver
as a 2,7k rio healer (started this season on healing) i have to say: Personal Deff CDs are too weak. Most people dont use them, while stand in shit for no reason and also dont usw them when some mechanic does damage to them. DBM tells them to use personals, i have a CD tracker addon and nothing happens, but my hps went up. I am certain some player wouldnt use pala bubble with 30sec cooldown because the "extra global" would melt their brain. They rather die and blame me, blizzard and sylvanas for it.
Okay, i got a little carried away. But still – personal deff CDs could take away 100% dmg with no downside and people still wouldn't use them enough.
Thumbnail made me think I was going to see someone being a "defensive creep" in game lol
Theun doesnt know what he's talking about with healers.
Resto shaman doesnt do anything outside of cooldowns? A lot of healing comes through riptide which you have to spread throughout the fight. And not to mention the chain heal build.
He just sounds like someone that gets his healing sniped by better players.
MW doesnt give you stamina, it just got tankier with passive defensives like bounce back and is just out of control with its healing throughput. If you're pulling big with a MW in M+ you wont die as long as they keep their Renewing Mists up and just Faeline Stomp and spam Spinning Crane Kick. Not to mention how short the cooldown is of one of your best healing CDs with Chi Ji and then no cooldown on Sheilun's Gift. That's what makes MW so good in m+ atm.
Overheating seems odd to measure when so many things like evoker (example only) is forced to overhead basically, no one wants to micro move in a stack for resonating orb depending on HP needed for echos for example.
Mana is also a knob to kill players.
Over healing as a singular stat is also a bit shaky to use depending on other factors as you can also say over healing would decrease with 0 damage output, or even just less bursty damage spikes. If there is no spikes, there would not be as much over healing probably as the chance of death would be way lower if you're at 70%
Monk went from active to passive for their bounce back defensive too 😛
Amen to this. The talent trees are bloated, hero trees are additional bloat. Make them cosmetic only.
Ferals: 'what's a defensive?'
I actually don't know how you die as a rogue in raid ever, between cheat, Feint spam for basically everything, and cloak. Now all they need is a passive node added into their class talents for 10% more hp.
u need to specify that thats what happensd in 25 keys plus try pugging and see who uses def, noone everyone get to low health and expect the healer to bring them up def dont matter in pugs
your audio recording is real scuffed in this video
All defensive and utility spells without a cast time should be off the global cool down. Some feel that there SHOULD be a tradeoff with using DPS globals, but I believe that it would simply remove an artificial limitation that makes it less enjoyable for players to play optimally.
you got a wrong sample rate on your mic something is fucked
i like that they point out vet and dks r at the bottom of the death list xD
The underlaying issue is how the talent trees are designed and all the unpruning. They can't put all the defensives in the spec tree, because then you have to pick between throughput and defensives/utility. If they put it in the class tree, there's a bloat of different defensives. If they prune the defensives there's almost no difference between specs in terms of defensives.