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Hey guys, I’m frequently asked to broaden my perspective on WoW, as i mostly have a very “top 1%” viewpoint – this is of course because almost everything i interact with in the game is at it’s highest level and that’s okay. But that does mean at times I fall behind on what the average wow player thinks. So in this video I’ll be listening to an entire podcast episode from some WoW “Casuals” to hear out their opinion, aswell as give some perspective to mine – hope you enjoy!
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Intro: 0:00
Asmongold’s Content: 2:44
40 Man Raiding: 7:29
Addons in WoW And Challenging Content: 39:48
Abilities & Addons: 1:22:27
The New Player Experience (Bloat): 2:00:52
Scenario’s That Teach You Your Class (Magetower): 2:27:38
WoW Doesn’t Need To Be Re-Done: 2:40:15
Finishing Thoughts: 2:43:13
#liquidmaximum #maximum #dragonflight
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I fucking love when you do shit like this and the undercover raider thing. It’s like a gritty journalist getting a finger on the pulse of the real WoW. Casuals are so foreign that it’s so interesting
Top 6% is heroic lmao?
make raids 40man? thats literally the reason most people i know dont want to raid. it sucks to organize big groups. nobody wants that except basement players or people whose job it is , so they can afford to treat this as more than a game.
I only play retail.
I find Asmongold very annoying and too many people parrot what he says and spread it like a virus. I'm constantly disagreeing with people and find out their opinion came from one of his videos. The entitlement of some of these rich youtubers is annoying as hell. The sad part about Asmongold and others is the developers see and hear the stuff they say and I worry they think that is how we all, or the large number of us, think. Meanwhile, those of us just playing and having fun are drowned out by these influencers. It's super obnoxious.
When I do raid, I am one of those players who doesn't take raids seriously. I just want to go in and have fun. I try to learn the mechanics and not take damage but I don't need, or want, crazy hard bosses. I only do LFR and I'm happy with that, even with all the chaos.
I'm also in a guild who does do higher level raids like Normal, Hard, and some Mythic (I think) but it's just not my thing. Sometimes my guild runs alt raids for Normal and I will occasionally join and help out but I largely just want to chill and crack dad jokes.
Aside from the raid numbers, I actually 100% agree with the other 2 points. The button bloat is outrageous and the addons being absolutely needed just speaks to them outsourcing making their UI workable.
Some of my favorite memories raiding came in 10man raids throughout WotLK, Cata & MoP. There still were challenges, though different from the challenges you faced in 25man.
3:00 This is exactly what he did. It's not even "his" editors per se. What happened was some dude was lifting content from his streams/VODs and would make videos without Asmongold's permission. Asmon basically just said he respected his hustle and let him do it on an official channel instead. I don't even think they split the profit.
Imo the 40man raid is terrible idea not only because it is hard to find that amount of like-minded players wit ha similar timeschedule and commitment to be able to regularly meet and raid. But also mathematically it would bring even large discrepency in the roles.
Very high ranked players (who play usually in their pool of players) and content creators that can fill several 40man raids in minutes anytime they want, probably dont see it. High ranked DPS players on correct characters can easily spec tanks for dungeons, people have several alts for different roles etc. But if you are running mostly in the groups with limited time, you dont have multiple geared characters, possible you dont even have that much time to learn offspecs and feel comfortable enough tanking etc it is already a problem as it is now. Lets put it this way. You have "casual" mythic guild (by casual I mean, not hardcore, rauding only several hours a week, maybe not even getting cutting edges etc. You will porbably have roster of around 25 players (maybe a bit more) so you are able to confortably have 20 people every raid night. Out of that, you will have probably around 5-6 healers, which is fine, but only 2 main tanks. Potentially 1 dps player that is regularly offtanking whenever one of the tanks is not avilable. But to be able to confortably have 5 or more m+ groups, you need 5 players willing (and be able to) tank. Already creating a tank shortage.
If you move this numebr higher, and create 40man as a main raid. The raid will still very likely be designed to have 2 (maybe 3 on some bosses) tanks, making even larger mathematical gap between the roles, having even less tanks for m+ group.
In my experience the situation is very bad already at the start of the season as it is (when everyone plays mostly only their mains, and mostly main roles). It is hard to find tanks in guild, it is hard to find tanks in pugs. Yes eventually as people get overgeared and dont have to play great to be successful for weekly runs, and start running alts etc, it usually evens out, but the start of the season is nightmare. And with making the mathematical gap between roles even larger sounds insane to me.
If anything I would try to already fight the current problem. Obvious solution looks like switching raid to 15man only, but I dont think that is great and that would take a lot from current raid design. So my suggestion would go other way around, by changing party (and dungeon) size to 6 (designed around 4 dps).
meanwhile I am just sitting here, watching Maxs' videos while collecting pets and doing quests all day. this is the true chill life
i think there's only 2 classes in the game that only have more than 10 rotational buttons lol
Wild how Gen Z just changes the boomer definition to anything they just generally don't agree with is a boomer take
@59:59 for me its default name plates. default nameplates are terrible.
Get Leo on the Poddy C
I like Asmond gold but mmos with 10 or less buttons never keep playing for long.
I’m not surprised you were shocked to find out people have a different perspective than you. You should try listening more.
"At ease" lol even though he didn't actually say that, I'm definitely gonna use that expression lol
1. As a casual, I would like 10 man raids. Finding more people kinda sucks and I like the idea of like your group of friends going to fight something but with more than 5 people in your party. I feel like going in with 20-40 feels like an army going in at that point and having 10 or less feels like "yeah this is my squad"
2. Also on the ilvl thing I agree. I kinda want just more transmogs. I find transmogs to be a better reward. Also the numbers getting so astronomically high, I hate it. I mean sure they'll ilvl squish rventually but i think getting to 4 digits is a good number for damage.
If I have to play default UI without addon and im not playing lol.
If you just killed addons i think that would make people rethink the button argument. I mean really how many people think they are good cause they can follow a rotational addon.
Its funny because classic wow is 40 man raids yet it still somehow is thriving…
Watched it on stream, but this is very cool
To describe heroic raiders as casuals give Me good perspective where is this channel in comparison to (apperently) uber-casual like Me.
So I know WoW isnt really a game that could work with only 10 buttons but I think there is an argument that could be made that a version of WoW with gameplay like Plunderstorm with 10 buttons similar to GW2 could work. Addons exist in this weird place where most of them dont hurt the game but the main offenders are DBM/Bigwigs and Weakaura. But they exist in an ouroboros style loop with fight design where its a race to the bottom. Players made these addons to make WoW more comfortable to play and now Blizz designs fights with the idea players have these addons.
Dude no wonder the mcdonald by my house sux, Atlas owns it and hes too busy being a dentist or w/e. smh my head
In fronk we trust.
"All addons gone, no exception."
Well, damn, talk about taking a tactical nuke to the Roleplaying servers who primarily use stuff like TRP3 to make their character profiles
What about ultra mythic 10 man… go the other way with it where you can spilt your main group
Wow is definitely more about being rewarding than it is about moment to moment fun, at every level. That doesn't mean the moment to moment gameplay can't be enjoyable, fun or engaging, but whether you are a world first raider who does the months of preparation, the heroic splits the first week and everything else that goes into that or you are the very definition of a casual who logs in occasionally to get a few levels, goes after a new piece for their collections tab or make progress on an achievement, ultimately it does come down to the reward center in the brain that triggers when you accomplish a goal you set for yourself, no?
Regarding frame rate, I helped a guildie do a Superbloom for his legendary. When we got to the final boss my frame rate dropped to 6 fps. No way WoW can handle that many people at one time
Dear max ! As an lfr raider and super casual person. Thank you for highlighting this topic! I'd love to chat with you one day about all this stuff =) but I agree, it's hard to get a different perspective on a game I think we all love !!
asmongold just wants blizzard to make the game easier so his developing gamer brain can pretend its fully developed.
I may be the absolute perfect casual. I'm 58 years old. Playing since vanilla. I have 25 level 70s. 99.9% of the time I run solo. I am logged on for hours everyday, doing my own thing. I almost never raid, including LFR. I do run the occasional 5 man when leveling. I no longer run battle grounds, but was in to them heavily a few years ago. I have never been in an Arena match. There are things I would like to do in the game, but find myself intimidated much of the time, and prefer not to get kicked due to my lack of knowledge. I have a fully custom UI that I created from scratch, and improving it is somewhat of a pet project. I am captivated with Weak Auras. I do not stream, but learned how to set up OBS Studio as a personal challenge. I am obsessed with TSM and making gold. I collect mounts, and recently got my 600 mount achievement. I have hundreds of battle pets, but don't realy pet battle any more. I have never been in a pet battle with another live player. If you have questions for casuals, I may be your candidate. Not seeking publicity, or my five minutes of fame.
Dear max, I think we are still missing the point of 40 man raids. Yes all the bosses in this fictional raid would just be world bosses essentially. Asmon point is to simplify the game so any group of people of any walk of life can join up and kill bosses with half the raid dead. Would this "kill" mythic raiding for you top raiders, yes ! But that's a risk he's willing to make ! It's better for the game and for more people to kill bosses than only liquid killing bosses. That is the point he's making ! And I agree
Has Asmon really said he wants 40 man raids? Im sure ive heard him talk about it a 100 times and he is always against it
damage meters are good because I don't want to play with people with shit dps.
the discussion of mythic being the different raid gave me an idea. What if the raid was first released as "mythic only" and only be available on lower difficulties in later season?.
So as an example with Dragonflight, how this idea would look like:
DF season1: Vault of Incarnates – mythic only, as LFR/normal/heroic we get some retuned old expansion succesfull raid
DF season2: Aberus – mythic only, Vault of the Incarnates LFR/normal/heroic
DF season3: Amirdrassil – mythic only, Aberus LFR/normal/heroic
DF season4. Amridrassil LFR/normal/heroic – no mythic raid available this season as reprogression of mythic raids in s4 doesnt seems to be popular anyway – for obvious reasons. (of course you can still jump to all 3 on mythic – slightly overgeared with s4 heroic gear – for skins/mounts/achievments etc, but no CE).
This would not add more development work (at least from my point of view), apart from tuning of the old raid (for difficulties that doesnt matter if you dont hit the tuning correctly on day 1 anyway) instead of tuning 3 mythic raids for s4, shuffling the resources slightly. But it would make mythic more "unique", basicly giving you early access to what is happening there, including the gear from there.
(Important part is that next season heroic items form that raid cant be better than what mythic items were the previous season. Because jumping the ilvl higher, would create a situation of "why bother with mythic now, when I can just wait couple of months, do it on heroic and get the same gear on higher ilvl). Essentially doing mythic would give the items that "casuals" (if we even can call people who can still clear heroic casuals) will only be able to get half a year from now. WHat that means that ilvl jumps between season cant be that high, or the mythic gear from s1 needs to be bumped up (either for free or very cheaply) to match the new s2 heroic ilvl. Without this step, mythic would feel very pointless for many people.
As an RPer it's always interesting to hear takes from the high end Mythic players, because it truly is just a different thing that we want out of the game and different reasons. But what we get into in differences starts getting into development priorities over actual encounter design etc. As someone who's rejection anxiety drives me FAR away from PUGs, it can be difficult to do content in modern wow, because as a healer, failing a M+ can devastate my entire day on a mood level. But to folks who really do enjoy the game, that's just sort of part of the process.
40-man queued content with LFR gear and sick cosmetic rewards would be awesome. 1% drop rate mounts, transmogs, toys and stuff. Just a bit of content that can feed you some basic gear, give you an interesting story and also have some hype drops once a week with a ton of people spamming spells.