Read more about Shadowlands ➜ https://worldofwarcraft.mgn.tv
This is an extremely high IQ conceptual video about WHY do people feel like the game has gotten and kept getting worse over the years and over the Expansions, without really ever actually explaining the reasioning, the HOWs and the WHYs as to why they felt that way.
In this Video, yours truly will tell you why exactly Shadowlands (or BFA….or Legion) are seen as “weaker” expansions compared to “MUH GOOD OLD DAYS” with reasons that go beyond just simple Nostalgia.
0:00 MUH CONTENT
4:01 EXPLAIN THINGS FOR ONCE
7:16 Reason #1: Streamers
8:12 Reason #2: Attitude towards the game from 2006 to 2016
9:56 Other NEW Online Games VS Boomer WoW
14:06 Reason #3: GOLD and Gold Farming
16:55 The only solution to the Gold Problem
19:06 No Gold Farming = More feeling of No Goals
21:41 Final Words
Find my WeakAuras, Plater+VuhDo Profiles and currently used Addons HERE: https://pastebin.com/u/izenhart
source
Press P to Pray for my voice to recover
its just boring and not enjoyable to play
9.1 added 3 new daily quests and new invasions woo
more m+ so you can re farm the same exact gear you farmed for months at a bit higher ilv – you dont have to spam heroic dungeons in tbc or do a certain amount weekly to pull a slot machine level on a weekly vault you can stop doing them after you outgear them
pvp is filled with boosters and so to counter it they made pvp worthless outside pvp again wooo not to mention melee being so dominant in pvp with no real balance
and a raid with i cant believe its not tier gear with more currency for gems you gotta upgrade because EVERYTHING needs to be upgradable and cant just be a static drop
oh and torghast changes that reward you more for taking longer and full clearing floors yay
and as for new raids being better…no new raids are harder and have more mechanics that in no way makes them more enjoyable you kill a raid boss in tbc you get the best loot for moderate effort if you want the best loot in live you gotta be able to clear mythic and most of the time the bosses are waaaaaay overtuned for the 0.1%
The only complain i have is that rares getting stuck all the way on the sky or just getting stuck all the way down in korthia.
You basically described the Asmongold's community in a nutshell. That is the type of cancer streamer noone needs.
I'd say biggest thing that makes wow "not good" is lost of community. Game is now this meta gaming thing where ppl run content to optimize their performance and all interactions with other players is made as minimal as needed with scoring system, lfg etc. so you don't ever have to say anything to any1 anymore
Caveat: i joined in season 4 of bfa but after playing bfa, SL and tbc, one thing that really makes a difference in WOW is the community. I like modern wow bc m+ is hard, mythic raiding is hard and u have to find a group of people who can work together to achieve your common goals. But i understand others and their complaining bc if they dont have that, i dont think they will enjoy the modern game bc i believe it is just MONUMENTALLY harder to actually do the content if you dont have some sort of relationship to the people you are playing with. That being said (remember i LIKE modern wow) i believe the problem is the existence of HUGE servers, it makes everyone faceless, you can be a dick to others and get away with it, you arent forced to have a relationship with other people to play the game so most just dont, so they dont even get the chance to do the higher level content with the feel of progression. My opinion is breaking up the larger servers, making people less faceless would theoretically really help people feel better about who they meet and the content they do
I could basically refer to my comment on your video "Why Shadowlands is one of the best expansions" since it has a lot of overlap with this video. This video is full of strawman arguments that people in the comments clearly don't see. It's the exact same "farming kekw's and true's in the chat" except in the opposite direction. I'm really disappointed you didn't give this topic the fair look it deserved and instead just shouted your uninformed opinions like the 'streamers' you so dislike. Speaking of streamers, @7:37 fucking tell me Preach is just doing it for clicks. Say it to me with a straight face. Because if you actually believe that you're out of your mind. You're using your personal opinions about streamer culture (your pessimistic view of it at least) to handwave any criticism they might have. Even though streamers/youtubers like Asmongold, Bellular, and Preach have explained in great detail what it is that's wrong with Blizzards approach to wow these days. Come back with a video actually addressing concerns they bring up instead of vague strawman ideas.
In your previous video about Shadowlands, the one I mentioned at the start, you never replied to my comment which addressed much of the confusion you had about why people aren't liking Shadowlands very much. Now I don't care if you read it or not, but it's just baffling to me you put out another video complaining about people that don't like shadowlands while completely ignoring valid comments and critique.
To pick out one example this patch: point me to the feature that took a company with endless subscription/store mount revenue and 15 years of experience developing this game 8 MONTHS to make. One of the longest content droughts Wow has ever had (because it can't compete with SoO) and what do they have to show for it? What's so special about this patch? Or could it just be the same mismanagement we've seen grow over the past couple of years?
WoW is one of the most expensive games to play on the market right now. You pay for the game, you pay for expansion, you pay for a monthly subscription, and you can spend extra on a cash shop if that wasn't enough. Do you think you're getting a fair return on that investment? Do you not see other games that deliver far more while costing way less money?
This is not an 'high IQ' video. This is a very ignorant video riddles with strawmen and personal biases.
PS: I advised you in my first comment to stop looking at wow forums and reddit because those places are riddles with uninformed idiots, and it's disappointing to see you still base all your opinions exclusively on that part of the community. It shows you have no intention for a discussion and just want to shout your opinions and have people agree with them.
Shit its shit no matter how you explained
They did the same with classic and now classic servers are empty.
WoW is bad because of the grind and RNG and obviously super OP classes and Blizzard not doing shit to stop it, but Blizzard does not respect your time, that's what my biggest problem is.
Thorgast farm is awful, it was fun once, twice, be doing it 8 times and later doing it every week for 6 months was just painful.
They create OP Legendaries, everyone gets them, they nerf them not to be equal with other legendaries but very often nerf them to the ground and they don't even try to refund any parts of the legendary forcing you to grind more.
Again I have 4 legendaries cause I play Druid all specs and now I need to recreate ALL of them due to domination gear and again they don't refund you anything.
Convenants again farm grind farm grind, they change soulbinds, change skills, change conduits nerfing stuff to the ground, buffing stuff to the point where you not playing the right convenant is you trolling. And again the same problem not respecting your time, you change covenants you gotta GRIND, I play Balance Druid now and I can bet you a ton of Balance Druids will reroll to Venth, grind for weeks, just for Blizzard to nerf Venth to the ground down the road and again not refund anything, not make changing covenants easier for the people they fcked over.
And this happens over and over and over again. I have fun playing Raids, Mythics, PvP, but I hate Blizzard wasting my time with their constant misbalancing and not even trying to help the effected players by their fck ups.
Well, here's an expansion you can compare this to: Legion.
Where's the profession quests/progression? Even fishing was it's own fun little world.
Where's the story? From the grayzone Illidan/Naaru excellence we now have Big Bad Nipple Man. You can very literally take the "big bad" of the expansion out of the game and no-one will notice. The story is told 90% in the books, you can't even follow it in-game.
Hall upgrades/progression was actually fun, tailored to classes, sucked you right in the fantasy.
Could go on and on.. Where's the content? Their team is allegedly the largest it's ever been, why is this the state of the game?
Great video. While im agreeing to some negative feedback (like power bound to specific covenants), i dont think Shadowlands deserves the hate that it gets.
I think a big part in this hate-train plays the modern internet society. People love drama. Whenever there is a streamer or whatever that talks negative about something, people push that like crazy. It almost feels like people want to see WoW fall, cause it entertains them in a weird way.
I wonder why Blizzard doesnt want to talk with the "community" that just talks subjective shit about the game all the time. It must be fucking depressing to work at blizz.
I love this eloquent explanation. Makes more sense to me. As a new WoW player the amount of negativity makes me sad cause I love it and I’m having a great time. But then again I am enjoying leveling alts through WoD and a lot of BofA was fun to me and I like the Torghast me dungeon so I guess I’m different. I feel like a new currency would make people complain more since no one likes too much grinding. I think grinding doing quests and dungeons for gear and transmogs and whatnot are better and all new more modern transmog to grind for would be more inspiring. I think the assaults are fun and the Korthian gear idea was a neat one but if you don’t already have a high ilvl it’s hard to grind up due to the rough mobs which cut into the fun…
Gonna have to disagree with a lot here, you keep repeating that Shadowlands content is better, and has more things to do, but you’re wrong, and you say it so much it’s like you’re trying to convince yourself as well.
Shadowlands has 8 dungeons, how many does TBC have? The fact you can repeat the same 8 Dungeons with some not-fun affixes like Tyrannical, does not mean it’s more content.
World quests are not better, they are barely engaging, mini-game bullshit, TBC the daily’s are part of a zone with lore and rep, granted Shadowlands has Korthia… almost a year later
Then to pull the “blame the streamers” card lol
If anything you said in this video was correct, Shadowlands would be booming, but it’s not.
While i think there some some legit points, in my opinion you are overall being extremely superficial towards certain aspects of the older iterations of WoW.
I generally have a lot more agency in the older iterations of WoW over my game time, there is nothing that tries to bait me into content over X amount of days / weeks.
Take heroics, i am completely fine that there is a point where i no longer have to engage in heroics on my main, i put a checker behind it and move on, there is no weekly cache that wants to me to run a heroic every week but rather i can focus on what i enjoy in the game (or outside of it).
When i level a new character, i'm doing heroics again, that content is not "dead" to me, it's just that i am finished on my main with a given piece of content and thus don't burn myself out because i have to do multiple M+ runs a week with each character i want to play.
Farming gold follows suit, i'm not going to pretend that farming Primal fire is peak gameplay, but because there are so many ways to make gold, i have so much agency.
I leveled a Hunter in Classic just do to Dire Maul East runs (which certain classes could solo for valueable mining / herbalism nodes) with Herbalism / Mining so i can farm gold there.
It's by no means the only gold farm in Classic and i did whenever i felt like it and stopped whenever it started to bore me.
I could do whenever i wanted to without "losing out" on anything, i never missed something like a daily or weekly lockout, sometimes i did 10 runs back to back, then did nothing for two weeks straight, without ever feeling i lost out on something.
And there are many other ways to make gold in Classic / TBC, now i'll just fly my circles in an Outland zone for some time when i feel like it – without any lockout telling me to do it on a daily / weekly basis.
This is a key aspect of that in my opinion, modern WoW gets completely wrong.
You want Soul ash?
It's Torghast or GTFO, do that one activity once per week or will you not get additional / better legendaries.
Also, in the older iterations of WoW, i could take a lot of time, throw it a certain grind and be done with it on that character for that expansion, it didn't come back.
In the modern iterations, these grinds keep coming back.
Done with AP in 8.1?
Here comes 8.2 with a new cap!
Done with Torghast in 9.0?
Here comes 9.1 with a currency from Torghast!
In the older iterations of WoW, you had your weekly raid lockouts, weekly Arena cap and that's about it, how you spend the rest of your time is up to you, there were additional elements to progress your character (Dungeons, Rep, Professions), but you were free to do them at your own leisure without some sort of lockout looming over you.
Not to mention, all those grinds still awarded like regular gear, it wasn't somehow special, you could ask yourself "Is this grind worth the upgrade to me?" and then decide for yourself.
For example, on my Hunter alt in TBC, i am not going to grind Thrallmar to Exalted, because i'll just wait until i get a weapon out of Karazhan and i feel completely fine about it.
I am not losing out on some special legendary effect that i can only acquire from that one source.
TL;DR Grinding without daily / weekly cap or catchup is not equal to grinds with a daily / weekly cap (or one that gets invalidated by a catchup mechanism).
*crys in 110k gold *
mythic+ is indeed boring and ruined the whole gearing progression for the game, low iq mythic plusers will downvote
So im 100% more of a modern wow player than classic, but going to classic while i didn't enjoy it all that well the one thing i did like was the world actually feeling like a threat. Modern WoW feels a bit too easy in the world content. I think if they moved more of that over to Modern it would make world content more fun to do.
So f true. Thanks for that video.
I don’t watch twitch nor do I watch streamers, retail and 9.1 is shit content. It’s a tiny spec of a zone with a rift phase to make it feel big, while reusing the same tiny zone. Then there’s the Maw that was ruined by the no mount experience, they recycled that garbage then left in frustrating systems that do nothing but piss off the player base.
one little problem when you talk abput the farming in elemental plateou you missread was that back then you actually needed mats to craft and farming those mats brought out world pvp and any sort of activities. i personally do like logging into wow and just doing random shit like that i dont always need raids and m+ to have thia content im good with making my own sandbox but not saying it doesnt need one or the other. plus today you can just buy a token lele. maybe i missunderstood your point but ye a game beeds the sandbox element to it aswell doesnt just need a specific ebd game
think the main problem is you need to do unfun things for hours to be able to do fun things, the grinding mmo model is old and tired now, its like if you had to farm for 3 hours in order to play one hour of pubg with your friends for example
Vanilla/TBC >> we didn't know any better
You can't tell game is shit when haven't reach the end of the expansion….
Liked the vid however attaching farmable currency to player power does not work. Soul ash was attached to torghast. Which was praised in beta testing. But because they tied soul ash to it people have a bad astr in their mouth now. Even though it’s only about 30-45 mins per week on each character
Izen spitting wisdom here
Conclusion: The WoW community is extremely jaded and stupid.
If WoW ever dies it won’t be because it’s become a bad game or wtv, it will be because these trash people killing it with their brainless bullshit.
I hope that dumb bald fuck watches this
This is the best video on the topic. Thank you Izen
The negative feelings growing around Wow is based of many little things and not grounded to one big thing. When a game just fizzles, that is the worst of the bunch. Samples could be: Dev attitudes, poor game mechanics, non interesting grinding, bad nerfs, unbalanced specs by great margins, Meta's limiting class diversity, gear, lack of gear, no great pieces of gear to entice good memories, lack of story, lack of new game innovations and so on and so on…
WoW is old and not the same game it was back in its first few years. It tried to grow and it did, how good it's quite a personal opinion. After MoP release, I think I missed pretty much every patch inbetween the xpack release and the couple months before a new xpack was going to be released.
Why? The gameplay is stale.
The phenomenon we used to name during our years in Everquest as "chat with dragons" was sort of still true in vanilla WoW, because resting between pulls for mana, etc. allowed some form of socialization, now it's unexistant except in voice chat with friends/guildmates.
I'm not saying SL is bad or good, it is what it is and I play until I don't anymore. This time I'll give it a shot to the x.1 patch, we'll see.
This really grizzlys my hills
High IQ, he barely speaks english
TBC was the best expansion for WoW, but that was many years ago. TBC Classic is not the same and is not that great compared to modern wow. I don't get all the hate around Shadowlands, it's a good, solid expansion; it's not the best wow expansion but it's certainly not the worst. So much hate these days for a video game, if you don't enjoy it, no worries, don't play it.
This is hands down the best video on wow and we needed this back in MOP days. I will say this though, wow does need an overhaul. Not in terms of a world revamp but an entire class revamp. As much as I love mop, the gameplay we have had with mop, which took a step back with WOD, is getting old. The only things that have changed since MoP outside of monk were a new class and a spec overhaul. So I think it’s just blizzard clinging on the old days much like the players and with classic out, I think it’s time to let go.
People have been explaining why shadowlands sucks for awhile with reasons..several reasons. You're making that up. Borrowed power..bad balance. Lack of meaningful updates. Just a few many are out there. They do give discussion and solutions. Stop it..you know better.
Great reasoning, I feel like you're also missing the changes to the social systems that make the content feel more hollow, etc with weaker social ties. People make their own content
Interesting but I think you’re wrong. We have plenty of currencies we need in shadowlands to buy different things like stugia, soul ash and anima and it doesnt make the game fun. Personally I hate farming currency. Ap was the worst example of this. We literally had to farm a currency throughout the entire legion and bfa and it sucked.
My only complaint right now is that I took some time off mid shadowlands release didn't get too far and now I have to be renowned 44 to continue the campaign. Which really really sucks, because I'm so far behind on renown ill be super far behind everyone else who didn't take a break. I was hoping with the release of 9.1 I could jump back in, grind to renown 40 and be on the same playing field as everyone else and get to grinding gear score and be raid ready. But oh well I'll just keep grinding and get to renowned 44 in a few weeks I guess. Don't get me wrong I don't want handouts I love grinding for gear and everything else, but there is no way for me to chase renown I'm stuck because I'm capped daily/weekly, so I can't catch up, I have to play the game at the pace set by the game and I cannot stand that. If I want to play 24 hours straight and catch up on renown I believe I should be able to do so especially with the release of 9.1. Meaning I should be allowed to get to renown 40 if I put the time and effort in to catch up not be held back by daily and weekly quests to get renown.
SL could be the modern Wrath and people would still hate it after a 9 month long content drought.