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Its no surprise that Shadowlands narrative has completely failed the question is, can it even be saved at this point?
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Na Accolonn its all the writing teams fault. They should have been laying out the foundation for Shadowlands in 8.0 with hints and teases about the world of the after life
Ditch all the time, effort and resources put into cinematics and put it into gameplay content. I've never played WoW for cinematics are their Subscribers who care about cinematics over content and fun gameplay? Who asked for more and better cinematics? Misallocation of resources imo
Also overhaul the Default UI and Settings so add-ons aren't necessary. Make the information displayed on screen and initial settings clear and obvious to even someone who hasn't played before and is just watching on twitch…by default. Someone seeing high rated 3v3 matches and has never played WoW but still can tell wtf is going on is a good goal post for efficacy of this. Why is bogarting basic info such a staple of the default WoW UI and Settings? What dev is in charge of UI…send help
At this point Blizzard honestly need to pull an ARR and just reset the world because currently WoW is not in a good place. I'm a FFXIV player myself but use to spend countless hours in WoW from MoP through to the first patch of BFA.
They need to focus more on Azeroth again, Show an actual passage of time, use these fancy new skyboxes on older zones, Tweak a few of the locations like they have done in previous expansion and make the 2 continents the focus again. Forget these grand narratives and just focus on smaller zone stories that has always been what I felt WoW did best, Have you as a nameless solider for you faction and not some "unbeatable hero" because when it actually comes down to the these epic cinematic and story telling moments your character had zero impact on the narrative you as the player don't even get the killing blow in the story. FFXIV has an amazing system with the daily roulettes, While it has everyone synced to the highest item level of that content it still gives new players an experience close to what was initially designed on release and for WoW to not have something like this blows my mind. You have all of this unused legacy content which new players will never get to experience.
Sadly though I feel like ego is to big for the WoW developers. They have this mentality that its "their game" and not yours. They dictate what is allowed to fun and what YOU as the player should be doing and that isn't what an MMORPG should be about!
I disagree, Accolonn… The writers are at fault here and we have been seeing that since WoD, the end of Legion, all throughout Battle for Azeroth, and again in Shadowlands. They don't plan ahead – instead, they make bullet point narratives of what they want to happen, then they write as they see the response of the player base and rush to give things an "end" when they realize that it didn't appeal the way that they thought it would.
They do the same thing with the game systems… Any small amount of criticism for a system that was given to us means abandoning it instead of improving upon it – even if the system that they give us is just a reiteration of something that they've already done, but done worse.
The writing team, the development team, everyone working on World of Warcraft, are in a chaotic spiral of failure, trying to put the pieces together before the end of the expansion, then re-living that failure next expansion.
They have no vision of what they should be doing and care very little about the things that are already there that would make their jobs more simple.
Kelthuzad being intended as the last boss of SoD would mean his dialogue makes sense.
I chose to follow you because you had some cool theories and it was great to watch a video of yours tonight about the lore, but now almost all you do is criticize them. You lost your salt, however when you upload a video about the lore I will follow you with the same energy because your videos are often cool
Personally i do believe there is chance to be saved. Really risky and yet simple too. The idea is that the hero ends up in a really quick scenario. He loses. BUT after he loses he wakes up inside torgast. Then he shows that he was a prisoner there all along and all he experienced was the nightmare of the tower that forced him. (a good place to make the heart of azeroth worth something too, as they can make it that it was it that saved the hero and grand him the powers of the "maw walker"). and here is the difficult part. From this point on, they reset everything they did, and let the story re-play from the beginning as it should, but only this time they have more than enough freaking time to rework and revisit all the previous cinematics and all to try and save the freaking game. It can be like a "expansion reset" too. All the previous players can get to hold all the powers and upgrades they hold, and new players can just simply go through all this chaos in fast-forward with the help of cinematics and a few small tedious quests that bring out the "torment of the maw"….
…and that is me just hoping and giving ideas to peole that call us f@cK32 because they dont want to listen anyone else…
WELP, I'm off to start my ff14 adventure -w-. Have fun you guys!!
(but i am serious about that risky idea. At least that can given them a reason to finish their works and give freaking answers at last…)
Can't wait for the next xpac: Avengeroth End Game.
Korthia should have been a landing strip at the end of 9.0 (or 9.0.5) for those doing the maw and torghast content (you cracked the code! and snuck into the realm the jailer's eye resides and studies in!) that had lore, an attunable one to two boss mini-jailer's eye raid, and boa token items for catch-up for alts. Beating the mini-raid on jailer's eye attunes you for the sanctum without having to do unlock quests in the freezing maw as Odyn will use his personal power to send you there (in 9.1) for returning his eye.
9.1 should have unlocked the Jailer's personal afterlife zone where you learn about his past and why he is doing what he is doing. Tazavesh could have been a marketplace in the past that had set up shop in the Jailer's afterlife like a caravan (maybe the Tazavesh of the present has an EXCEEDINGLY VALUABLE backdoor to this sealed pocket dimension). Fragments of the past, this tazavesh portal, or some artifact gained to view the past would be used to quest into learning what had desolated most of his realm. We play through a suramar type questline where the Jailer is the HERO! Until he realizes the machinery of death is broken. And Sylvanas finds us because she is pursuing one of the maguffin sigils that the jailer used to have and she confides in us what she is there for because she talks to the past Jailer and we overhear her. Then all the sigil capturing plays out as in 9.1 but we actually know what they are for and we learn that the Jailer needed to use the power of his time shifted-sigil to finally control Anduin and make the gates necessary to send his forces into the afterlives. The jailer had been studying Korthia not only to learn of the first ones, but to get his sigil back from his past self by finding a way back to his realm (right before the others locked him up) so that he could use its strength to execute his escape.
Just remember the Snyder cut. Just because the original story was better doesn't mean it was good. Shadow lands is not bad because of production issues, BFA proved blizzard story telling sucks, production issues just made it worse.
Fear of speaking in public doesnt make you a pussy… but its a trait shared by many of the people in charge of communication at blizzard!
The whole sylvanis story arc has imo is a huge part of downfall in wow. The dark lady has ruined this game
Seriously, what they should do at this point in time is just make a full stop on the development, regroup, hire more people, give themselves like 2 months to think their next moves through and in the meantime not charge people for sub, apologize to the players and ask for patience. Then, deliver a patch that's actually good but they need to regroup and rethink their actions because it's utter chaos out there right now.
If Sylvanas comeback is shit: They are screwed. Destroying another loved character again like they did with old gods and aszhara is not going to be well recived. Blizzard, guys if you are about to shit on more stuff you better WAIT, LET US KNOW,TAKE MORE TIME and DO IT RIGHT. You have to stop with this shit unfinished content is not only about Shadowlands, YOU DID This in Cataclysm, WoD, MoP, Legion, BFA. Stop just stop. I know you are watching this video thats why i know youll read this. YOU need something pretty good to save the game. You didn't listen before, DO IT NOW.
The lore has been trash for years now.
This meta “beyond Sargeras, beyond the Titans” crap has just removed any and all pretenses they had left.
I disagree. Writers have been fucking up the storyline since WoD (ending of HFC with there's just ONE Legion). Also, they've wasted a lot of potential content like Argus, Azshara should had her own expansion, N'zoth plot line has been in development since Cataclysm and then he's free and… dead now… I mean, I don't know if they're trying to create a new story wasting all the previous stuff or they just want to kill the game in order to make mobile or CoD games so Kotick could buy no one but two yachts…
check/remember pyros farewell to wow, and there you have it.
BfA was more immediately obvious in how damaging it was to the setting.
I think Shadowlands will be more obvious in years to come, in how it completely removed the mystery of Death in Warcraft (if Death is just another place just like the world of the living, that removes the stakes of characters being in danger). And in how it puts the Jailer as the cornerstone of most things in Warcraft – they were so busy making him artificially important that they forgot to make him interesting on his own.
That Garrosh cinematic was a massacre on such a heavy lore character. I like what was in it, but that cinematic looked like it was datamined.
The writers might not be entirely to blame for the pacing of the narrative, but they are absolutely to blame for the events themselves. Who the hell asked for World of Warcraft to become abstract metaphysics in space? The writers have ruined most of the fan-favorite characters as well as the lore. What used to be a mysterious setting with lots of unanswered questions has become a boring place where none of the explanations provided are interesting.
You all are just stuck in your ways and want lore to be a certain way. None of you can grasp the fact of what wow lore really is. It’s just like history of humans on earth and playing the game of operator. Wow lore is passed down from generation to generation and the truth gets stretched and mangled to fit the narrative of who ever is presenting it in game/books. None of it is absolute and never has been absolute yet you all think it’s supposed to be for some stupid reason. Your all are just being cynical at this point and instead of using 5 headed thinking you are down to half brained thinking and just looking for any reason to not realize the issue with wow lore is you grew up to being/thinking as adults and still trying to hold on to your childhood
The entire concept of Shadowlands has never worked for me. It doesn't feel like the afterlife. The Jailer is really not very interesting.
Next expansion World of Warcraft: End Times
The only thing I know is that whoever is writing this atrocity they call a story should go back to the fanfic forums and stay there. The current state of the game, whether in lore or in gameplay and enjoyment, is not the players' fault.
Blame it on Blizzard as a whole, who really felt that what they've been doing since WOD/Legion/BfA is pleasing the crowd, even though we're saying loudly that we're not happy with the story and other elements of the game.
Blizzard doesn't know how to write a story with gray nuances involving cosmic themes, even more trying to make the Light be seen as a tyrant and the Void as a misunderstood child. The very concept of factions and its importance has been tarnished by the current story and players begin to ask for the end of the alliance and the horde, reducing factions, something that has always been one of the elements of Warcraft, to the importance of socks for a troll.
@accolonn I get that you at one point were passionate about WoW, but it just seems to me that you are done with the game. I have been watching your videos lately and there is really nothing good left in WoW. Do you think that maybe it is just time for you to move on and start covering a different game that you enjoy playing?
It started as a joke, but at this point my favorite option to resolve the story is to pull the giant ripcord and have us wake up from a dream/nightmare in 10.0 thanks to some one or force that saved us from n'zoth's corruption. We'd find ourselves right off in the middle of finishing the real n'zoth encounter alongside the key character or thing that helped us awaken. Hell maybe somehow it would be Azshara that saves us for some reason.. still would like more hints towards her end goals and motivations. Then it can continue on a variant of the sylvanas story to resolve that along with resolving the situation with a giant ass sword stuck in azeroth.
I don't know if I can agree with that. WoW's lead writer was Sylvannas' biggest simp, and he even wrote himself into the plot as Nathanos. He wrote for her alone.
BellularGaming just dropped info for 9.2 and its clear that blizz has completely lost what little of their minds they had left. Someone attempts to rez Galakrond, Azeroth puts herself into a coma like state to save us from Zovaal….and we have a possible civil war as anduin returns and goes head to head against tura to reclaim his throne….oh..and we get custom coloring etc for mounts
Just quit the game at this point.
It IS the writing team's fault. Sure, rushing through things doesn't make it better, but in the end the story wasn't even good to begin with and was ripe with issues and holes. Also its important to mention Cinematics DO NOT equal writing. Yes it needs to be scripted and all but that doesn't change all the other stuff they could do to deliver the writing they wanted outside it in text either. Things can be jumped ahead, but it shouldn't have massive gaping holes in both story and more importantly logic.
The cutscene with Anduin hitting the Primus with his sword is the one that got me to just delete my character with the last bit of Subscription I had.
If they rush because they want everyone to make 10.0, I am happy. The only thing I dont want is 10.0 in 2023… having an already sht expac for 2 more years with 9.2 and .3, I just cant believe they will let this happen. Sub numbers are already low, making people wait for this much time would really push people to other games and not just for trying them out but it would be enough time to stick with the new game and when 10.0 comes out not sure if they wanna go back..