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Shadowlands PvP Developer, Chris Kaleiki, recently left Blizzard near the launch of Shadowlands. Because of this, I had the opportunity to sit down with him and talk about several PvP topics including: Communication, Feedback, Class Changes & Balance, PvP Gearing, Rated Battlegrounds, and Rated Solo Queue. I thought it would be a good opportunity for the community to hear the perspective of a developer in effort to answer some of the questions of the player base. Please let me know what you all think, and if I should do something like this again. Thank you for watching!
Chris’s Website:
https://kaleiki.com/
Chris’s YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKJOrEY3V8b5l808IhUuH_w
Stoopzz Live Stream (M-W-F 12pm PST):
https://www.twitch.tv/stoopzz_tv
Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/Stoopzz_TV
0:00 Intro
2:13 How We Met
8:23 Communication & Feedback
28:57 Shadowlands PvP Experience
43:39 PvP Gearing & Stats
58:05 PvP Scaling & Power Curves
1:10:25 PvP vs PvE
1:14:18 Investing In WoW PvP
1:26:30 RBGS
1:36:37 Rated Solo Queue & LFG
1:59:23 Outro
source
I don’t know if I agree with the solo queue. I do think MMOs should be centered around guilds, or organized groups you develop with. These games have been built around community. There could be ways to incentivize that more though, simply because the nature of the game. Still, thank you for trying to actively offer solutions, let’s keep that mindset of small improvements over time
GDAMN this video is WoW Youtube hall-of-fame instantly for me
@Stoopzz_TV <3
Firstly, I'm a fan of your opinion content. But you sold this as an interview and I felt like it was just you talking at him for 90% of it and not actually asking questions he could respond to. Sure you had an opportunity to give your feedback directly to an ex-dev, but I would have liked to hear more from his perspective, seems like a lost opportunity.
WE WANT RATED SOLO QUEUE! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE! AND BRING BACK 5S FOR NO TITLE REWARDS! <3 oops sorry caps cousin stole my phone hehe.
I don’t believe you u played any mmo u are not even 40+ so U have not
And there is a lot of mmo that have any thing u talking about
Here is one swtor is one stop talking bs
Guild wars do u want more lineage ?
Kinda lol
Btw Chris why is it wow is 16 old and only 8 expansions and eq is haveing 20 years but have 27 expansions
I quit shadowlands today because I’m sick of getting 1 shotted in the arena.. can’t even play the game becausePVE has such better gear
I really like how PVP is right now. There are something that can be better. But overall i like how it is. If people want to nerf the dmg, than I think they need to boost the CC. It's the same story as MOP, alot of player complains about dmg and CC, but when Blizzard reduce all CC and dmg alot of pros complain how flat and boring the game was. Another thing is TANK spec in arena, its so stupid.
Its toxic because you have to validate yourself! in solo queue systems you don't have to prove your worth initially. It pisses me off profoundly that I'm above a certain level but then I'd have to gatekeep people and push people away because they are beneath me… The system is toxic so fix it!
Another video of people bitchingggg
awesome vid man
Really good and intressting talk!
Great video stoopzz
Trying to find game in RBG is like….. sometimes hours go by and and I cant find a game. unbeliveble. stuck at 1.8cr just no games….
lets get solo queue rated arenas that would be sick
to quote the last part. SOLOQUE
War Mode: You are allowed to kill other players from oppersite faction – But no longer be able to fly on ur flying mounts.
Or world pvp can be somthing u que into alone ofc u can que with friends aswell but groups cannot be big.
ANSWER: World pvp rewards – Some will include "SOLO" comment, makes it so that ppl dont grp up 5 players or more to gank 1 player.
kill 10 players solo world pvp weekly reward 1000honor
kill 25 Players solo world pvp weekly reward 350Conquest
achivements based around world pvp
do 1v2 open world allows to upgrade pvp gear to higher ilvl
do 1v3 open world allows to upgrade pvp gear to higher ilvl
make a history record for stuff u do in world pvp.
"Got no one to que with? then go & world pvp"
Solo -> Numbers can varriate
kill 1k players open world THIS SEASON same access as 1400 raiting
kill 2,5k players open world THIS SEASON same access as 1600 raiting
kill 5k player open world THIS SEASON same access as 1800 raiting
ect.
weekly quests can be.
Bounty on alliance players
collect & kill to add to Honor level <Honor level> should work like arena raiting.
1 kill = 1 Conquest -> still conquest has cap ofc shared with arena.
This is really awesome stoopzz!!! Holy mackerel!!!
Yea I dont think there is any way to make pve and pvp players both happy with the gearing system. I guess they could add a pvp specific stat to pvp gear to make players more resilient in pvp combat or something.
Rated Solo Queue. I rly wish to have this, I play this game since vanilla, I play pvp, pve, the whole game, the issue is as we get older, we have a real-life, this is still a game which I like but its still a game, but when I play it I want to play at higher lvl and not world quest or skirmish, but when I have 1 hour of playtime and I spend whole 1 hour just to look for people it just kill the whole thing and I'm at the point where I just play something else, most friend quite long time ago.
Yeah for sure World of Warcraft need new dev teams ! New young ppl with pasion . Why the heck you ms Kaleiki make monk to have every form of cc + mega mobility + great healing + great dmg + great deffecenes ? Dont you ever think this is too much for dps spec ? The only way to counter monk is you to nerf him !
My Mage is now 186 ilvl and i have weekly quest to do arena skirmishes and guess what …. all the time my enemys are 35k hp + this is like 200-220 ilvl …. How do you think new players will enjoy this game when there is no system no balans the Q ? Wait there is no new players cuz they come and quit so fast !
This game have tons of problems and all your decisions are mediocre !
if you play the game casual it's better to resign and leave and give young people a way to develop the game in a modern way !
Every pvp system is old , every bg is unbalanced every arena is stupid… ppl running around the pilars for ages ! where you will se that in other games ?
Shadowlands is soo mediocre … All the mobs there are from Azeroth . Nothing new at all . This is the afterlife only for Azeroth planet ? ? ? Im pretry sure no .
Idk when you go deep you see even more problems with this game …
the most important thing for WoW is to make RATED SOLO PVP with perfect balans system . 1 tank 3 healers 6 dps for both team ! not 2 healers 8 dps vs 4 healers 6 dps …. you got the point . And is not aways the most important the system to look for similar rating player . system must look for similar item level player some how . Cuz when the team got 190 ilvl player and rest are 220 they will curse the system again !! !! !!!
This is the most important thing !
3 people on the pvp team. more than i assumed actually
This interview made me want to quit wow. Especially where he is saying that certain players will always remain their shitty elo. Should've expected it from wow devs though
Was excited to see how this interview progressed but it was a shame the majority of the answers were bureaucratic non-answers. Stoopz made a good effort to try and separate the issues from Chris' own input, but this somewhat confirmed the suspicion that the WoW dev team really are disconnected from their player base. I cannot think of any other company on the scale of Blizzard that would stifle changes and creativity so much for fear of 'devs getting upset from feedback'…..
For civilized players, communication would be great on both ends. Realistically for any large game, the player base is unbelievably toxic and unable to consider differing opinions.
1:25:00 oh my god this whole fucking part hurt so much they're literally clueless. Thanks for your hardwork Chris and thanks you Stoopz for bringing some light to the situation.
Yes to rated solo queue!
Damn you hit the nail on the head with the issues of the LFG system. I just came back after not playing several Xpacs and I've found so much fun doing RBGs and high M+'s and its hard for a solo player such as myself to find people to play with. I spend more time looking for a group to do competitive PvP / M+'s that at times it becomes more of a hassle then its usually worth. After a couple of hours I just log off and play something else.
Torghast too short, lol i like your videos and some points but hell no Torghast is probably the wrost most boring thing in the GAME lmao i think we can all agree on that.
He can't find and hire mathematicians to make a balance which he wants? I think is kind of a business model sell the shit. Cause ppl will eat this anyway… who not? This is WoW. People eat shit every expansion.
Volume very low, but good video!
https://youtu.be/S6fwK-Jnxnc?t=5729 Lot of people won't join to RBG cause you stupid Blizzard create an environment which allows grow elitism. Lets assume that one player lose 40 RBG's and after each he become better and better but this player not able to find a group cause people go check-pvp and won't play with him. I think MMR and CR must be public, and that's it. Also people won't join cause for what? To be stomped by Boomkins and Arms and WW monks? Holy cow… so stupid man and he drive the PvP development in WoW… holy cow… (
But actually I'm glad that this guy leave Blizzard. Cause I think Solo queue and any modern updates in game was blocked by him. Cause he like all of this old fashion stuff…
Would love solo que been saying this since wrath. But I have no idea how it should work. They would have to find some kind of way to rate u for how u played not how your team played…
I really love WoW arena. I think it is such a unique and compelling competitive game. But I just can't play it without a matchmaking system. And it sucks because I REALLY love the game. And I love watching it. But what I watch, I can't experience.
I'm absolutely certain that solo rated queue would be the overwhelmingly most popular arena mode if it were implemented. Look at EVERY other game. Do you think competitive Overwatch players spend their day queueing with 5 premade teammates? Do League players queue with 4 premade teammates? No, they all queue ALONE.
I just want to play this game I love. Please allow me to.
Dude! Start podcasting these as well plz, I would love listening to stuff like this in my car… easier 😉 U just got a new sub
I'm an above average Outlaw rogue and getting in groups is hell, so the 'waiting game' is even worse if you're not part of the meta. The game desperately needs solo queue for rated content, the fact that we still don't have it for arenas, M+ and RBG's is asinine as FUCK. It makes ZERO sense and the pros FAR outweigh the cons. I am sick and tired of my already limited time available being spent mostly for waiting.
I've been playing wow for 8+ years now and mainly did PVE content over the past 2-3 years because PVP felt gutted once they removed PVP vendors (only got to 2k rating in pvp so I'm not a pro by any means). In 8.3 I mained a fury warrior and had 2800 IO and casually hosted pug groups for Heroic Nyalotha and Mythic (even though I only got 5/12 for mythic). I have played all aspects of the game and I have a good insight of what could be done to close the gap on how to obtain gear from PVP and PVE and how to ensure players can play the game the way they WANT to play it. Not how the devs think they should play the game.
Please take some time to read these ideas and feel free to reply to this with any ideas you have to make the current systems better or if you want to chime in on the models i've posted below.
M+ NEEDS TO BE MORE REWARDING: Mythic+ gear dropped from dungeons is capped at 210 ilvl from +14s and up and is just terrible. There is not a single reason to push higher keys unless you are going for KSM or if you want to flex you raider IO score. Bring back valor points and make it possible to upgrade your PVE gear based on your average M+ dungeon you've timed similar to how the PVP system works with rating now. So if you've completed all +10s you can upgrade any gear obtained from M+ content to 213 ilvl similar to reaching 1600 rating in PVP. If you have completed every dungeon on a +15 and have KSM then you can upgrade your gear to 220 ilvl similar to 1800 in PVP. If you've completed all +20s then you can upgrade your gear to 226 ilvl similar to 2100 in PVP. To ensure people don't climb ilvl too fast, make valor points (or whatever currency) have a weekly cap so you can only upgrade 1 – 2 pieces a week. Now you may be wondering, well this would make the Tuesday Vault less exciting… But the reason it wouldn't is because you would still be getting an upgrade every week ilvl wise (unless you are at the +20 mark) or even land your BIS slot piece with a chance of a socket on it.
RAIDING: The ilvl of the gear in the raid ties perfectly to the difficulty required to complete. Normal is a walk in the park and you barely need a brain to complete. Heroic is 213+ ilvl equivalent to 1600 rating in PVP and mythic is 226+ ilvl equivalent 2100 rating. Raiding needs a reason to down bosses again and again during the week because people who are hardcore raiders don't want to do M+ or PVP… They simply want to do the content that they enjoy the most but they also want to be rewarded for doing so or it will feel like a waste of time thus making the game boring and causing players to quit. So create a separate currency specifically for RAID and you will acquire this currency from downing bosses. Although you can only receive gear from the bosses once a week, you can farm this currency at an uncapped rate through out the week but will be acquired at a slow rate increasing by raid difficulty (Normal: 50 / Heroic: 100 / Mythic: 250) . This currency will allow you to upgrade gear of one difficulty to slightly below the next. For example. Normal raid gear can be upgraded to 210. Heroic raid get can be upgraded to 220. However, you will not be able to upgrade mythic gear but you will be able to use the currency to buy BIS raid loot from a vendor at a super steep price similar to how long it took to buy BIS azerite pieces using Titan Residuum in 8.3. The weekly vault will stay the same on terms of how it functions with raiding now.
PVP STAYS THE WAY IT IS: The system for PVP is fantastic which is why I based the 2 models above around it. It keeps me engaged and gives me a reason to push rating even when I'm already capped and allows me to play the content i like without forcing me to do anything else. Yes i still run the occasional M+ dungeon or down a couple bosses on heroic if my guild needs it but as of now PVP is the only great way to gear up effectively and I really hope they learn from the positive feedback the community put out and stretch it into other parts of the game so PVE players don't feel left behind like the PVP players have for the past couple years.
Character Info: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/sargeras/%C3%9Fuff
*Im a dude, just using my GFs youtube account for this comment*
yeah right now arenas is full with boosters who want to boost you for real money not even gold sooo bravo you reach pay to win status:)
The rated competitive pvp in this game can't be taken seriously unless there is equal footing in gear (no grind to select gear sets) like guild wars 2 AND consistent small adjustments to find proper balance. It feels terrible to level a new character to 60 and be undergeared in pvp. You get blown up even if you are a better player.
yea,yea,yea,no,yea
Just remove seed pod it’s so stupid….
Not adding solo/duo queue for rated BG because it's too toxic? That must be the most idiotic reason I've heard. Every successful competitive PVP team based game on the planet has it. Also, add repeatable world PVP kill quests already. Removing this guy from the equation is a great thing for the game. Hopefully the people who step in have a clue.
Tl;DR?
Feedback: There is no policy for blizzard devs to respond to player feedback. They see our feedback at their own personal discretion and maybe integrate that into their own QA and design choices. Blizzard wants to keep dev team small and looking through forums takes too much time if mandated.
Developer decisions: this requires a lot of internal pitching, meetings, and developer consensus. Blizzard internal decisions often operate like a political congress, there is a lot of people you need to convince to change things.
Meta: Blizzard often doesn't quick buff or nerf because they want to see people come up with counter comp solutions to overpowered specs (lol fuck 99.9% of players who cant multiclass at rank 1 level).
Chris opinion on Shadowlands pvp: burst good. pod bad. convoke is too nuts.
Frequent tunings: They don't want to juice up classes that thrive in an endurance (slow) meta because as people get more durable, these classes will become too OP (e.g. if you buff affliction to make it viable in burst meta, then it will outpace every spec as game goes on). No mention of why they don't just tune and scale classes relative to current stat levels (lmao devs actually putting in work). They mentioned Legion meta was good and consistent throughout xpac.
Gearing: Why can't they offer equal gearing through all end game content? M+ gearing is trash while PvP is good, BFA was the opposite. Game historically had players raid for best gear, then came arena vendors with seperate pvp stats –> this split communities where all the pvp focused players stopped raiding. Blizzard wants a better balance where communities interact more, removing pvp stat brings community together while relieving dev time towards stat balancing. This vision for the playerbase changes with each expansion. Blizzard never has a concrete answer on what activity should be the most rewarding and they don't always know how to respect players time investments. Chris thinks SL gearing is good.
Edit: Super TL;DR: Small team, pvp not focus, no plan, don't want to spend time/resources fixing.