Read more about Shadowlands ➜ https://worldofwarcraft.mgn.tv
Let’s have a talk! My thoughts and summary of some of the topics covered on the AllCraft PvP Summit with Asmongold, RichCampbell, Savix & Stoopz.
Check out the full PvP summit if you haven’t already:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfj2j-tsrY4&ab_channel=RichWCampbell
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Think people seriously misunderstand what I’m saying regarding healers. For most of WoW’s history 1 DPS could significantly pressure a single healer, especially with mortal wounds effects (Mortal Strike, Wound Poison. Ect). This isn’t really the case ATM, a single DPS will never kill an equally skilled healer, and never be able to run them out of mana. Healers being this strong makes world PvP, BGS, RBGS and arena pre dampening extremely boring. The only reason SOME games of arena can end before dampening is because of grousely ovetuned trinkets, essences and corruption. Normal damage can never overpower normal healing, even with MS effects.
Obviously healers shouldn’t be worthless but right now healers are too strong. I’ve shout casted thousands of games of arena in BFA, most of them requiring 50+% healing reduction AND mortal wounds to end a game, absolutely absurd. I’d like to see healers contribute offensively, as well as defensively so a good healer can maximize both those utilities.
Would it be so fucking terrible for PvErs to feel like they had a reason to do BGs? Bear in mind that they’ll never HAVE to since they already have two systems for gearing. If BGs were a good gearing system all it would do is offer another alternative option.
I can’t express how much I agree with you on class gameplay. Nothing in the entire game is more important than how good the classes feel to play. As an enhance shaman main, I feel completely left out of this expansion, even though damage rotation feels fun and new.
if a dps can solo a healer in world pvp how would arena work 2 dps go on 1 healer and he would instantly flop so it makes no sense for a dps to be able to solo a healer in world pvp that is why dampening is there right? as a dps main its ez to say you want dps to do more and healers to be weaker. the problem is players are too tanky in order to kill a player you really should CC the healer and be able to kill the dps during that window after forcing their defensive CDs. In season 4 ppl stacked versa in seasons 1 and 2 the defensive traits in azerite armor were not nerfed that is why players were tanky the problem wasnt healers healing too much
class changes cant happen to all class every xpac or you wont be able to balance things and you cant create a new class every xpac since there are just so many abilities you can put into the game. it is just impossible to make all classes unique and powerful if you could do it tell blizzard how since its just not possible
I know it was a very average expac but i really likes the class design in MOP. Every spec for everyclass was strong. able to burst, consistent damage, and not everything felt the same. Gearing was good, had reforging. fun world pvp, good duels. its was so good and you could drop tanks / healers if they miss played.
Good video. I agree with every part. 🙂 pure pvp-ers just want to be able to log in and grind games. We dont want to do all the pve nonsense to be sub optimal at best. Grinding neck, grinding essence, grinding m+, doing mythic raiding and then on top you still need to ur games and push ratings… its pretty much a full time job to have ur character on a competetive level… I mean by the time we are done we are burned out.
Pruning was the worst change ever made to the game. Many systems needed nerfing but there has been excessive power creep on passives, defensives, self heals for dps classes, healers in general, etc.
Just bring back legion pvp. No legendaries or trinkets and stat templates. Easy day.
What is even the point to play healer if the healer is supposed to be killed by 1 dps? Healer is supposed to keep himself and his team alive. If healer doesn't have dmg to kill dps then dps should not out-damage heals of a healer.
Healer has to stay alive under dps pressure and heal other people at the same time. What are you talking about?
Id definitely drop healer and go back to playing dps if it was flat out better than healer. And then again, no healers in the game, Long ques etc. Perfect game design.
A brawler guild for duels sounds so fun i hope we get it
I feel since after WoD they haven't had a clue how to handle PvP. I have been leveling alts via BGs and it's been a blast. Set Bonuses, PvP Stat…. they worked. It makes me feel the current team has no PvP'ers involved. Also unique pvp sets.
I dont play shadow but from people's complaints shadow was complete trash in bfa. It makes sense to completely change spec that is garbage right? Same applies to warrior- most underrepresented class in pvp. Arms was complete garbage so he was reworked.
You complain that mage didn't get much attention? What do you want to change if the mage was most op class right next to warlock? You seriously just like to complain and ask to make game completely so that you have fun.
Nerf heals, improve mage cause I'm playing it…
Focus on important stuff like gearing via pvp and nerfing trinkets/ buffing abilities. These are the only problems with wow pvp.
For healers the issue its just the mana. I dont thing they are op besides mana issue
Versatility sucks and there is a good reason. What if you play a spec that benefits heavily from mastery for example enh. shamans. Its way more fun to have a higher chance for windfury proccs & so on but you HAVE to stack versa because its the new PvP stat hindering the class being played as it should be. A stat like resilience would give every player the opportunity to go for a desired stat or even try out less resilience -> more offensive stats or vice versa. This system is just so half baked & flawed its unreal.
very good =D
You've hit the nail on the head regarding mana management. I totally agree with all mana users having spells that regen mana, especially healers. Its nice to have class power and managing your spells effectively, it makes it feel like you're playing really well. Im pretty sure priest used to have a hymn the restored a bit of mana and temporarily increased mana, it was pretty sweet. I also miss having evocation on mage, and having a glyph that healed you (that could now be a pvp talent; 'Evocation also heals you').
Main point as well is, class power needs to be better than borrowed power/trinkets etc. That should just be standard, and I really hope Shadowlands doesn't mess up with conduits, soulbinds and covenant abilities. All the procs from gear in bfa felt awful imo.
They need to make the item level for PvP gear the same as PvE gear. Then you can gear however you want… it could be like, standard PvP gear is the same as mythic 1. But honor isnt such a grind to get. And then you can upgrade the honor gear to the equivalent of mythic 6. Then conquest gear starts at mythic 7 and can be upgraded to mythic 10.
31:38
Blue team red team mixed factions and better balance. Done.
I also think problem about gearing is,not only that honor gear is not good and its just not worth grinding when you can just do some M+2 and have same gear,conquest gear have problem also. Yeah conquest starter gear is around 200 ilvl but to upgrade that same gear,you need higher rating,and i feel like these people dont understand because they are high rated players how hard is for some people to even reach 2k rating. Which again take us to same thing,do some M+ higher keys or pug some normal raid and will have same gear as 2k rated player which is way harder. Only thing rating should have effect is how much conquest you can cap in a week.
holy crap Ven you got some fashion taste, absolutely fire mog
they can make that arena i orgrimmar for people to duel, even do 2v2 and 3v3 where audience would be ppl gathering and watching. Guilds could use it for events. They can even make it you can add reward, so when you win you got gold or whatever ppl put for reward. It would be fun.
And actually disc priests are doing so much dps
Problem is that sometimes healers are doing so much damage and also tanks shouldn't get allowed to ranked arenas its not fun playing against guardian driuds and prot pally
There's an important balance between damage, hp pools and healing that I don't think is well understood, including by Blizzard. There's a ton of variations of them that will make the game feel good, as long as there's appropriate counter balance in other places. The simplest formula here is 'when hp pools increase relative to damage, healing must go down and vice versa'
TBC had high hp pools relative to damage with low healing. Wrath had low hp pools relative to damage, with high healing.
This simple explanation ignores the nuances of burst vs sustained damage, gear choices, class balance and borrowed power but I think it gets my point across.
My frustration is that it seems as if there has been very little consideration of these ratios ever since dampening has been added. The target goal for devs is less about how the game feels and more about answering these two questions:
Do people die too fast that may upset new players? If yes, lower damage or nerf specific class
Do games go too long? If yes nerf mana on healers otherwise dampening solves this
can you stop making those videos? It makes me even more sad to hear all of the "what we could have" stuff and then realizing it will never happen
More discussions great video
Even though it's never gonna happen but still think 2 and 4 set bonuses like fist of fury stun in pvp 4 set, soul swap 4 set in pvp would encourage pvp gear regardless of stats. Every class with these types of set bonuses would bring the excitement and fun to pvp.
Even venriku complaining about healers…
I think wow streamers getting more and more toxic each day becouse they dont see their broken spells… Last week watched soulscapes 300% dmg warrior video and he was complaining about how broken zombie explosion build while doing 1vX. Just unbelieveable…….
So ven you tell us its ok to kill ppl with most idiotic and 0 skill spell (greater pyro) spam and have fun whole expansion but as a healer playing smart and not getting killed is something deserves punishment?
they just wasting time with retarded secondary systems and neglect classes. I just want to play the game ! BFA felt more like WORK then a game I just wanted play pvp but I had to DO FUCKING BORING stupid systems before and it took way too long and i quit no way I ll buy wow retardlands
– PvP gear scaling like in WoD to make honor gear relevant, conquest gear the best gear for PvP & make PvP gear translatable to PvE (no PvP specific stat).
– Disable PvE trinket in PvP & remove the PvP trinket bonus to help with future scaling balancing issues.
– Reduce all healing in PvP combat (Approx 20 to 40%) to make all types of PvP content engaging.
– Create new ranked PvP Solo que content (Duel, arenas & bg's) (For arenas, you could have a list with all specialisations and choose which ones you would want to partner with)
Only those 4 things would make PvP fresh, autonomous & fun 🙂
Love the podcast style video's, keep up the good work!
It's amazing how blizzard can miss out on opportunities like brawler's guild to add a PvP aspect to them. I mean I had that thought when I first heard about it. It still mind boggling to see Blizzard neglected PvP almoste every expansion since TBC, when arena was added. (I'm exaggerating but still)
Really good ideas. There are so many small things you can do for PvP to spice things up. Titles and even R1 for duels could be super cool (with spec-specific ladders, so enhancement shamans don't compete in the same bracket as elemental shamans). R1 for 2v2 could also be a thing (as you say, it might not be taken as seriously as R1 for 3v3, but it adds a competitive element towards the top of the 2v2 ladder and doesn't really cost anything). I returned to WoW this year after not playing since Cata and there has been literally no innovation on the PvP scene. Actually, because 5v5 is no longer a thing, there is actually less to do in terms of rated PvP than there was 10 years ago. Introducing more forms of rated PvP is not a huge undertaking and there literally hasn't been any rated PvP development in 10 years. It's crazy.
Great video Ven really like this sort of content
Completely disagree with the point that 1 healer should die to 1 dps (outplay not being a factor). Imagine being a healer in bg's, you would get absolutely destroyed in an instant. No one peels for a healer in bgs lmfao. Literally no one would play a healer if 1 dps could kill you. That would be the most unfun experience. I do agree with your perspective on healers mana. It was much more fun when you had to manage mana resources to get mana back. You sound very biased tho when you say "well healers should go oom, but it's not fun when dps have to manage mana".
Get a job at Blizzard Ven, PvP needs someone like you making decisions.
bring back pvp sets for honor eot.
Loved the breakdown, I find it hard to get the time to watch such a long vid like allcraft and keep track of it when I suspend it. This was good 👍
I agree with the rewards of the different PvP aspects. If they were to implement the brawlers guild dueling thing with a ranking system. Obviously they would have to ban healers and tanks. Only DPS could que up.
Under no circumstance should Blizzard listen to someone who still lives in their moms basement
First)
You seem extremely tunnel-visioned on mage perspective. The opening example shows a staggering lack of insight. If you take a healer down to 10% during a counterspell or your partners stun, and then complain about it not being 0%, that is kind of strange. You really want a game where you can force 1 trinket, then 100-0 the opponent next go without counterplay?
Second)
You should look at the warrior discord. Nobody is positive about the changes. They got a bunch of utility back in pvp, but nobody likes the changes over-all. Warrior has gotten near-zero attention since alpha of SL. In pve, there are a host of major issues that boil down to "the spec just doesnt work well". The order of operation with application of the mastery, having to choose between AOE or 2-target. Having other melee take over the arms-niche (2 target cleave taken over by frost dk). Spell reflect also got a massive nerf, in that it only works on 1 single spell hit now. So great, I dont have to use a talent to get it, but now its considerably weaker.
Third)
This comes off as "let them eat cake" perspective from someone who plays 2 of the strongest classes in arena through all of bfa, and in fact most of wows history. Mage has ALWAYS been strong. Yet here you are, yearning for the greener grass. Put your actions where your words are and go play a warrior in high rated arena.
In my opinion the dps and healing done should be almost equal so any mistake can be punished. Why should I even try to kill a healer when he will just jump around spam insta heals and kills me eventually? Totally agrer on this healers are just too much OP.
Just give me rated solo queues… i dont even need gear, let me enjoy the part of the game i like.
1 DPS should be able to kill 1 healer. This is so true. I've hated healers being so OP for so long. A healer should at least run out of mana or something. But in BGs it's what ever team has 2-4 healers wins the game and it sucks that it comes down to RNG.
It feels like the state of PVP is so highly dependent on your PVE gear. The current state of WoW feels alot more like a diablo type of game rather than what i think of as an MMO. which is fine for PVE maybe it makes it more fun. I think for PVP however it should be more of a communication, coordination, and skill competition. It is why I loved PVP in wow, but the devs seem to be going away from this more and more. which is why I am seeing more and more people leaving the scene. Including I guess me, I am hopefully for SL but honestly this might just be the last chance for wow.
I appreciated the PvP Summit it was pretty fascinating and you really touched everything I care about so thank you for that, I hope Blizzard will take your feedback seriously and add some of the features and some of the principles you talked about to the game. <3
well about rewards u are right both brackets pvp and pve need EPIC rewards otherwise none will play