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Back in Legion all of the 12 classes in the game have their own order halls, which all provided their own unique stories and experiences, which ultimately provided the same rewards to everyone, besides the artifact weapon itself being different for every spec. However the artifact weapon itself was not optional, if you played a retribution Paladin, you were getting the ashbringer, and there was no choice to be made. In this system the order halls and artifacts were basically default class features that you had no choice in, and were just pure additions on top of the normal gameplay.
The covenant system is pretty similar, except you actually have choices to make. There’s four to choose from instead of 12, and you also get to perks you want in addition to picking which story or aesthetic you like the most. Or that’s what people kind of wished was the case.
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Covenants are so, so, so bad
My opinion is that the abilities should be available to all covenants. Like you play through the zones and each covenant grants you a new ability and you just "socket" one that you want to use and swap them whenever you feel like it.
Consolidate the covenant talent trees into 3 trees that are the same regardless of covenant.
Have the choice affect the story a little and maybe affect the colour of the abilities. Means that players could pick their covenant for story reasons and be able to play the best ability for their spec and swap when wanted.
Also get rid of the energy system for changing conduits.
problem with rep is that useless to buy the gear cuz is so low ilvl xD and the mission table give crappy low lvl gear and even when u reach late table the gear it give u already have got it from m+
there so much conduit that are weak and covenant most of class one is good lol
Bring back my artifact weapons they were better in every way and should have stayed in the game.
1:03 I love how when you talk about bad order halls you show the worst scene from the DK Order Hall.
Clinically insane? No worries, being undead will cure that! Except when it doesn't.
Now that the covenants towards are working towards a common goal and fighting side by side in korthia and the maw i don’t see Why the covenant abilities are restricted anymore.
Eh… I'd rather they had just made the covenant ability a final shadowlands theme'd talent row. If I want to play fire mage, I want the NF ability, if I want to play frost, I want venthyr for raid and NF for M+, if I want to play arcane, I want kyrian.
Completely disassociate the power between the cosmetic and the power. I get what they were going for, but it just flat out does not work in WoW… They have fostered and extreme min/max mentality for longer than a decade. It's not shocking at all that people would balk at something like this. It's really not shocking at all if you're tackling content that nearly requires you to min/max to this extent.
For conduit energy… do what you said and put in a UI to create profiles just like the equipment panel. Boom… whole conduit problem fixed.
I wanted to play venthyr mage because of the awesome aesthetic transmogs but the ability feels awful to use, i also wanted to run a glacial spike build but the only thing that supports it is kyrian
it's an awful system, there isn't much choice as you will always choose what helps you mechanically rather than aesthetically in a game like this
I quit WoW after 9.1. My spec sucks now, joining another covenant and clearing torghast for a new legendary, which will take several weeks btw, is the last thing I wanna do
Basically hardcore players don't like it cause they can't min max with all abilities
You can change covenants between your raids and it's not that bad. I have changed covenants 3 times to new covenants
Ion dropping bad game after bad game. Congrats bro.
Has anyone addressed how fucking absurd these systems are to new players coming into the game 7 and 8 months after release?
I was able to get shadowlands for cheap a week ago and was immediately turned off by how much catch up and bullshit I have to go through to unlock conduits, legendaries, covenants etc. etc.
It makes me literally not want to log on because the time I have has to be devoted to shit just to get my character ready to do the shit I actually want to do.
You don't have to min-max every little thing. I picked Necrolord for Mage, because who cares
I agree with everything except anima gain. I made a new character to switch mains about a month before 9.1. After only doing only dailies unless a calling required WQ's, I only have one more building to finish in my covenant hall(I also have about half or more of the cosmetics that cost anima from my covenant).
Yeah, this has been a topic of discussion for some time on limited conduit change limitations and the switch from one covenant to another.
So here are many of the thoughts guildies, friends and other players bring up when this system's limitations are discussed.
1) Why do we take a penalty on changing covenants when much of the game was changed (say Demonology Warlock) for Class or game fantasy play that is meant for a the story theme?
If said character is the Maw walker and is a pivotal part in the story/hero would that character not be on good terms with all the covenants so changing would/should not be an issue.
No one is saying that one doesnt need to level the reknown but take a class like a warrior who in single target and pvp Venthyr looks to be the covenant but for Mythic + Night Fae and Kyrian are far better choices. If a person is the hero of the shadowlands one should easily be able to switch (idc if they assign a 500g-1000g pers switch penalty much like the azerite power switch in BFA) covenants. One should not have to level 2 characters of one class to enjoy all content of the game like many have done. There is speculation that this would draw in more level 50 boosts and generate more dollars to be the reason but for me it come across as a rushed product and I am very open to being wrong about that.
2) Limitation on conduits switching even if one is limited to a specific covenant ties in with the thoughts on the covenant change limitation.
Oh I need to only be able to pvp for a few days and hopefully cap out in that time as well as be available in raiding and mythic+ ?
This comes across as poorly planned or as some speculate ( and I mean strongly) that this is another limitation meant to stear inviduals to boost many of the same class to generate more revenue. I know there are those out there that are ok with it and it is not a question of money for me I am one of those nerdy players who yeah gets attached to a couple of my toons and cloning them seems to take some of the fun out of it for me personally. Everyone is different so yeah its cool if thats a bit too nerd for many but its what I like to do as my main has all the achievements, rep etc while others classes are not so much. regardless the Covenant system looks rushed and depsite many of the features that are storyline themed and cosmetic I like a lot about them except for the limitations.
The problem was that you have several specs but covenants locked you in to specs when some abilities heavily favored special specs. I played as a Warrior and Venthyr was too good to have as a damage dealer, but playing as a Venthyr meant that you had an absolute garbage ability for tanking, while Nightfae and Kyrian had excellent tanking abilities, and Necrolords was just absolute garbage for anything. Another garbage thing was that all covenants had their own war tables, which made it a boring task to swap covenants if you wanted to level war tables. Blizzard had 0 clue about how to balance covenants and they did not care for the months I played the game, they would have made Necrolords good if they cared about what they put in to the game, the banner for Warrior had no use at all, it was useless.
stop making wow content unless you support sexual abuse
I'd be fine if at a certain Renown + Rep maxed out and maybe completing the campaign so you prove you are there to help the Shadowlands all the covenants would go "Oh Maw Walker we all love u as part of our covenant u can use our covenant abilities at your disposal" or something like that maybe not immediately but maybe 9.2 could work
Was expecting a little less personal opinions, for some reason. Thus this vid comes across as a bit whingy. Also a bit unfocused and all over the place
The situation with least freedom in covenant is 100% DH in PvP, not choosing the hunt in night fae will make people not want to invite you, and can cost you almost all ur games
wow is like "far msame items with more ilvl to the next expa" no ty. i dont want to do that anymore. i need new items every season. not the same items with more item level.
Truthfully the conduit energy problem does affect my gameplay a lot personally. Instead of using Nadjia (best soulbind for Arms and Fury specs in all content) for all content like I'd like i have to settle for using Theotar for my Arms PvP build. I have in fact run out of conduit energy before and it sucks having to wait for it all to recharge to switch your soulbind for a preferred spec (not to mention conduit energy is shared between soulbinds). So while you may think of it as a lower grievance it does affect other player's gameplay quite a bit. Not meaning to rant at you but your point actually holds a lot more ground than you think.
I’m choosing Venthir because my mage is based off an oc of mine so gotta chose vampires cause she’s a mage Werewolf/Vampire hybrid in some mediums (primarily vampire)
one solution for a second choice of class specific covenant ability could be having the ability to enter in a close alliance with one of the other covenants?
and make it a similar process to change close alliances to how it is to change covenants now.
Covenants are the main reason i do not play the game anymore.
The Problem With Covenants
there fucking shit
I didn’t really like any of the four covenants.
Yeah I love the venthyr aesthetic. All my mogs are based around it. But kyrian is my best covenant now as of 9.1…if I switch I lose access to that aesthetic. Switching feels straight up bad, not good or meaningful.
The problem is developing more systems nobody wants while the community's social structure is ruined by ennumerable QoL mechanics and sharding. Everything is a ghost town and us, solo players, are forced to choose a guild based on a coin flip, because none of them makes any impact on the world at all apart from some numbers on some website. Modern WoW is just an outlet to sell gold to junkies.
When your fav Cov is your classes BIS is a win win
I quit Wow ages ago, but I freaking called it. I told friends who still play that they can look forward to having to change Covenants every major patch, because there would always be one ability that was clearly significantly better than the others.
I can't agree. I like to play all of my class's specs, so conduit energy is cock and ball torture for me.
lmao imagine "flexing" on someone because you play a video game longer then they do. 😂🤣😂
I played holy paladin, before it came out i was dead set on necrolords for the look and how i imagien my character. Well i play the zone and the ability is just garbage. The kyrian was so much better but i do NOT like the kyrians for my personal story. But if i wanna pvp, raid, mythic the only choice really is kyrian. Just let me have divine toll and be a necrolord. Also when i got a tank demon hunter, the kyrian ability again was just the choice for mythic+ wich is what i wanted to do. But then i wanted to try DH in pvp and now my ability is just pure garbage if i wanna play the dmg spec. Well shortly after that i just quit, i cant play how i want and what is their point, do they want me to have 2 DH, 1 tank and 1 dmg. But then i need to farm so much for the covenant. I could not be ask to do that much to have some fun once in a while. Also i am a new player and that burnt me out so quick, call me casual, but if they want that much money from me with buying the expansion and a sub the least they can do is to make the game fun or atleast easier to enjoy.
Being a mage sucks this xpac, Each spec has a different covenant BIS (fire NF/ Frost/ Venthyr – arc/kyrian) and im just finding out how painful it is to swap back to frost 😔
They should have given you the ability to send out an Envoy to a single rival Covenant as a fifth section of the Anima upgrades.
The Player gets to choose which of the other three Covenants to send the Envoy to and upon returning, that Covenant's Special Ability is added to a selection menu, accessible from any Rested Area, with no cooldown.
This way, you still make your "meaningful choice" when first starting out, then at Upgrade Rank 1, you unlock the choice between half the Covenant Special Abilities, at Upgrade Rank 2, you get three of them, at Upgrade Rank 3, you get all four.
You still can only use one at a time and can only switch when at a Rested Area, same as Talents, but with enough Anima grinding, you could use any of the four abilities on the fly.
Im a simple man i liked maldraxxus the most leveling my dk so he went necrolord dh went venthyr druid went night fae palladins gonna go kyrian
order halls and artifacts felt like real parts of their world that included us.
Covenants feels like somebody created their world with our journey in mind and how best to make us do it again and again with the least amount of work on their end.
I like the choice. I think increasing the diversity of player's choices is better for the culture and feel of the game. The balance of the game is always a problem, I know it's hard blizzard, but wtf.
Was it just me or was this video kind of hard to follow? Every time you came close to making a point you seemed to just jump to another thing you didn’t like about talents.
The class hall was the best idea, like really EACH CLASS GOT THERE OWN STORY!! Sure some lacked but they can always improve on the idea, blizzard just wanted less work
Hell could combine garrison,order hall atleast it would keep them relevant
And people thought Azerite traits where bad😂
So, do you like that you can change covenants now?
I think a major aspect of the covenants that also felt underwhelming was the roleplaying element. In the order halls you had no choice, but at the same time there was such a focus on your class that it felt like a unique experience based on your rpg character. But when you can pick any covenant, that uniqueness goes away, so it doesn't feel as special. Plus the way they're presented also was underwhelming as, in the order halls, the quests, characters, and settings made you feel like you were in an elite society, but in the covenants, I just felt like I was these guys errand boy.
The covenant energy didn't really hurt you too much if you played JUST one spec. But if you played multiple specs, especially hybrid classes and wanted to keep the same soulbind for a dps spec as a healing spec or even tank, it really hurt or was just outright annoying.
just do what I did. stop caring about min maxing. and just play what you find enjoyable.
you know what a parse means? it means the boss is dead.
let that sink in
The Problem With Covenants in World of Warcraft: that one DH necrolord ability that randomly spawns a demon that dies in a glaive throw and does a farts worth of aoe damage and god help you if it isnt one of the enemies the glaive hits bc it does real damage and throw glaive is like an 8 second cooldown video over
The reason these systems happened is because most developers at Blizzard don't play their own games. So of course things happen all the time that "look good on paper" that any player could tell them within 5 minutes wouldn't work. Ion is the only one that really plays, and well he's a raidlogger.