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World of Warcraft Shadowlands has a deep dark secret, the main question here is, why do some souls go to the WoW Shadowlands while others find themselves going to the Shadowlands Maw. What exactly happened to Sylvanas in Shadowlands and Zovaal the Shadowlands jailer?
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Nobbel; Are there Irredeemable souls?: https://youtu.be/THh_dleE6nc
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I love how Arthas slays Windrunner just casually leans over from his horse and stabby…..
Is it because she committed suicide
Perhaps it was because she was a suicide? I've seen past video's where you equate some of WOW's theme's to modern and ancient religion's. As far as I know she is the only WOW character to suicide herself.
Sylvannas irredeemable? Garrosh is? Give me a break
Sylvanas goes into the maw to bring arthas’s soul back to shadow lands and where it’s supposed to be. Saving him from wrongful death, and preserving her betrayal from someone who wasn’t arthas. She sacrifices herself for us and arthas.
Maybe the reason Sylvanas went straight into the maw is because she had no hope anymore. She committed suicide which is the ultimate expression of losing hope. Furthermore she had mentioned that she wants to destroy hope several times in bfa. I think the reason hope is important because souls who die without any hope in their hearts are not able to give anima to the realms of the shadowlands.
I dont trust the Arbiter.
I think Sylvanas WAS judged and sent to the Maw but made to believe she went straight there because the jailer and arbiter are working on something together.
I think that something is an already created corrupted titan, trapped in the maw
Ordinarily, I love characters like her, but I never liked Sylvanas. I would like to believe that maybe there was that darkness living inside her before Arthas killed her, and then when he broke her down and made her into a banshee, it removed all the layers of compassion, empathy, etc. leaving the worst parts of her.
You gotta keep in mind that the said book was released like 9-10 years ago. I highly doubt blizzard had remotely ANY plans for Shadowlands back then. That book was probably there to fill some gap, give another layer to her character. I am expecting that part to be retconned and explained in more details later on in SL story.
Garrosh just killed people. Sylvanas stole their freedom, oh sure sure, she helped a lot of people get free, but she used a lot of tactics to control the forsaken and forced many undead into slavery. This is far worse than just murder. It was not until Blizzard changed this in the bfa gameplay did the whole thing of free will get called into question.
The implication of Frostmourne still holding the good in Sylvanas inside of itself as a result of this theory creates an interesting situation, given a second chance and no Arthas to take vengeance on, would she be apalled by what she had become in reality and strike out against it? Would she side with herself to become even stronger? The possibilities are endless, but like most implications that stem from a theory, I'd be surprised if the devs took it up. Still, it's fun to muse about the reaction on Dark Lady's face if Alleria and Vereesa showed up with her other half in tow 🤣😂🤣 We'd definitely get one of those trademark Banshee screams for sure! Loved the video regardless and I just hope they take even half of these ideas that have been floated over the past 6~8 months and include some of them. It'd really make Shadowlands top 3 all time in terms of WoW expacs.
I feel to be damned it would have to be by your own actions. to be damned by someone elses actions doesnt make sense to me.
I don't think any soul goes straight to the Maw. But as Sylvanas was "resurected" with the power of the Maw, as all the Forsaken or Death Knight, her soul is linked to it. Sooo… I really expect to see characters like Dranosh Saurfang in the Maw. Uther is different, because his soul was splitted and saved by the light as we see in Afterlives.
In my mind, the all thing with the Kyrians taking your soul to the Arbiter to be judge and send to a covenant is like a public system : everyone has a chance. But if you link your soul to a "god" of death (Helya, Odin, Bwomsamdi… ect) they can take your soul before the Kyrians arrive. That's
why Bwomsamdi seek fame and power among the Zandalari : To save their souls.
Sooo… Sylvanas would never have the chance to have a happy (?) afterlife and that was she did all of that : To destroy this system, or to destroy the Maw.
Maybe a part of her soul is in SL and this Sylvanas is not the "entire" Sylvanas. Or maybe the Arbiter went like "Hey, you didn't do that much evil, but you proved to be a very manipulative individual" ( she tricked the dreadlords, made varimathras kill one of his OWN KIND, which is something Varimathras made sound like 'forbidden', she also killed Garithos < which was a dickhead anyway > ) so maybe the Arbiter was just too afraid of her being in the SL in any of the covenants, because of her potential. I believe that some Jailer wizzardry went on ( it is stated that he might've had the help of 'ancient forces' ) and that's why she ended up in the Maw, BUT, as she tricked the dreadlords and Garithos and everyone, she will trick every other evil being in the chaotic WoW universe where all the BIG POWER HOUSES ( like Titans / Old Gods etc. ) are confused and fools, can't really make right decisions ( esp when the dreadlords manipulate ALL of the powers ). I am waiting for the time when my Queen will show these fools what true power is.
It's time to even the scales – Sylvanas Windrunner
Ever since the bastion cinematic I have been thinking we will be meeting another Sylvannas in the shadowlands. The good part of her soul moved on, the other dark side escaped frostmornes control and became the dark lady. Unlike the other part of Luther's soul which remained trapped, and is the part of his soul we spoke to in icecrown.
I believe hope is the answer. Souls with no hope go to the maw. Sylvannas had no hope, additionally in her moves to drive more souls to the maw (despite death being broken) she tries to kill hope. With BFA being the lead in to the shadowlands (finding out more about it and sylvannas) killing hope is mentioned multiple times when talking to sylvannas (saurfang and delaryn summer moon). Keeping in mind that everything in cinematics is intentional, we can assume that sylvannas’ main goal was to kill hope.
frostmorn is the def the key in all this
Uther doesn't remember the Arbiter, either. He wakes up after being assigned to a realm when he's almost all the way in Bastion. I don't think souls are aware of being sorted.
Uther broke the shackles/limits of the Maw by throwing Arthas Menethil into it even though he didn't deserve it (Arthas would have been the type of person to end up in Revendreth not the Maw). So by sending a spirit to the Maw that didnt belong there bypassing the arbiters judgement, it created a connection from the Maw to the other spirit realms which then allowed the valkyries to grab Sylvannas upon death and for the Jailer to do his shenanigans.
Two points:
1). Do you think frostmourne/lich king had the ability to not only render a soul in two, but chose wether to take the “good side or bad side” of someone’s soul?
2) Even if the “good” part of Sylvanas soul was trapped in frostmourne, upon the shattering of frostmourne all of its entombed souls escaped presumably to the shadowlands. So could that mean there is a Sylvanas soul somewhere in the shadowlands? Maybe being held hostage in Torghast to keep her physical body doing the bidding of Zuvaal?
I think its because she took her own life. Suicide is the ultimate blasphemous sin. She decided when to end her life instead of fate, therefore she was sent to the Maw.
Or she was sent to revendreth first and then cast into the maw as the sire saw her great potential. As they said time has no meaning in the shadowlands, she could have spend an eternity in revendreth and then sent to the maw to make the deal and get sent back to the mortal plane right in time for cataclysm.
Complete agree!
i always thought being 'damned' as they often are described, meant exactly that – being hacked by the mournblade and as a result heading straight for the maw. i thought this is what sylvanas realised upon arrival, figured this was what awaits every single one of her forsaken and that's what gave her a new motivation – to undo this design. because 'fukk da systim'.
I think Arbiter judges ones intentions, not actions. Sylvanas did a lot of good things before she went to the maw. Her entire life up until that point was all about thwarting Arthas. So, why did she go to the Maw then? So, imagine death realm. Every day countless souls from countless realms come in, awaiting judgement. Now, how is Arbiter supposed to know all the different social, historical facts to judge deeds as good or bad? There are literally entire universes of moral systems, values, virtues and sins out there, its impossible for single arbiter to know all of them. Something acceptable or good on one planet might be a tabu on the other. Then there are mad, misinformed, manipulated, etc. Why would a mere soldier who was fed orders and misinformation know he was ever doing a bad thing? How can a mad man know you are not supposed to burn children? It seems logical that Arbiter looks at the intentions behind ones actions, not the actions themselves. If there is truly not a sliver of good in there, they go to the maw.
This is Sylvanas. She was turned into a banshee. We see in the game and evenmoreso in books that even the basic forsaken have problems ripping themselves from hatred, fear, and all the negative emotions or even recalling what love felt like. Sylvanas is this to the power of ten. She literally decides to kill herself when she had no more hatred. She is then judged based on something she did not really have control over, as it was forced upon her. (Again, motif of free will making a full circle).
In the end, can we truly blame her actions from then on, when the system is so broken?
Could it be the Saronite? Windrunner fell to her death by suicide? Maybe suicide or Saronite and or both had made her bypass the Arbitrer?