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Mundanity: The everyday, the commonplace, the ordinary. ❤️ This is my love letter to “boring” mechanics. 😛
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If you liked this, check out another great video about chilled-out MMOs by @wizawhat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWW78HOZobU&ab_channel=wizawhat
Lion’s Pride Tavern music by Arin North!
https://soundcloud.com/arin-north/sets/lions-pride-acoustic
https://arinnorthmusic.com/
ABK strike fund: https://www.gofundme.com/f/abk-strike-fund
Poetry book graphic by @hotcyder 🙂
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FYI, when I get to 10,000 subscribers. I'm going to do a "drunk history of Azeroth." So, like, stay tuned for that.
As someone who genuinely loves playing Warpless runs of Breath of the Wild, you learn to enjoy the time taken traveling.
This is the feeling I look for in games the most, I love when a game lets you chill or explore in ways not really intended like the clip of you jumping into the ocean is the type of stuff I got up to as a kid. Recently I've tried recapturing that mindset after years of completing games just wasn't satisfying, a weird example was a while ago my brother found out you could break into mexico in red dead 2 and so we spent days exploring the oddly detailed terrain of a land that isn't ever used in the game, then we broke out of bounds and wondered across a vast wasteland until eventually falling off the edge. Even in more linear games like half life I'll find myself stopping to take int the atmosphere. During Monster Hunter Tri's Online years I enjoyed doing the collection quests with random people online over the actual hunts, I have fond memories of just staring out over the destert or across the sea and it's the reason I will always carry a pair of binoculars in those games. One thing I want to achieve in my games is a strong sense of mundane, and plots revolving around characters just living in the world. Though that said, I don't think I'll ever appreciate level grinding, just not for me, I like it in the context of it being a sort of punishment for not thinking outside the box or as a cruel joke when there's a pretty powerful axe just hiding behind the lighthouse in that glorious stump that I didn't know about but will now always exploit. Then again I enjoyed Death Stranding so maybe it's just the context behind the grind.
It's encouraging to hear someone espouse the experience as existence in a game world as enjoyable. Listening to this gave me important ideas about a game I'd like to make one day / tinker with. Thank you, your videos, thoughts, and passion are awesome!
You are brilliant and interesting. I hope you keep making videos.
Part two really hits me right in the heart. I don't fast travel in games, and I finally realize it is because of the downtime the game let's you have during these moments. you get to take a break from all the action or story going on and really just get lost into the world. Thanks for making a video that made me realize that.
I hate you, NOW I want to play world of wardcraft!
My fondest memories of WoW are just turning the HUD off and riding / walking through beautiful places Pre-Cata. Favorites were Ashenvale (I was Horde on a PvP server so bonus if I got into my other favorite part of the game on the way) — Blackrock Mountains, Stranglethorn, Winterspring, Duskwood, Silverpine… Old dungeons that the enemies of were no threat (BRD, Stratholme, BFD, etc. – this was in WotLK mostly)
I also loved trying to wall climb up mountains & get into unintended zones / areas that were just set dressing for flight paths, cut content (pre-cata World Tree! Pre-BC Quel'thalas!), or uninstanced dungeons. When they patched out the wall jumping (I think it was near the end of BC?) I lost a big part of my fun in the game.
(I was also a huge PvP tryhard and RPer & I do have positive memories of doing that stuff as well, but the biggest impact was just the digital existence in this made up place)
Based on this video and your video on maps/exploration, I think you would enjoy Guild Wars 2! I recently started playing it from another Youtuber's suggestion (Josh Strife Hayes), and I've been having tons of fun wandering the game world in random directions, teaming up with strangers, and trying different kinds of challenges. What I like most about the game is that everything you do and every NPC you talk to is integrated into the game's world and narrative. Even with the simplest helper quests, you're learning about the lives of the people of that region, or helping them fight a war, or assisting in archeological research. All of which ties into the bigger picture that you discover as you explore further.
And on the online multiplayer side, because of how level scaling and in-game events work, low level and high level players are always intermingling, even in the starter zones. Players tend to be very friendly and I've already seen a surprising number of players going out of their way to help strangers. Especially with the game's jumping puzzles, some of which are quite tricky to complete!
If you do try it out, my biggest recommendation is this: when you're loaded in just open your map, open the icon settings in the bottom corner, and turn off "Map Completion" icons (and maybe "Waypoints" too). This is what opens the game up for self-directed play.
"Grinding"
Zero reaction. I work in retail, grinding is nothing. I'm already dead inside.
This is why I like sandbox games. Thank you for addressing this feeling.
When you said grinding, I think my eyes opened a little wider and I smiled slightly.
I actually like grinding! But, there's certain kinds of grinding I like. I think there's a way to do it right, and so I paused the video to ponder, what are the ways to make grinding feel awesome? And, that's how I got distracted from the video (and kind of wanting to grind professions in WoW or something!)
But, hey, I like grinding. I'm her, the one who likes grinding.
Sometimes I think the lack of this mundanity in my real life is a negative thing too. The closest thing I have to needing to wait for something is waiting for a slow paced video to finish its point (not this one!) because I can control the pace of everything I engage with. I never wait for or on a bus, or anything like that and if I cook something in the oven, I find something to do while it bakes. Even if I have nothing planned, my schedule is jam packed because I can jump from one task to the next seamlessly and a billion activities vie for my attention. In the rare minutes I do find myself waiting, I'm inclined to pull out my phone and check something, or perhaps more responsibly do some dishes etc.
Maybe that's why it's so comfortable to find it in video games. I've been trying to seek it in my life outside games too. It can be hard to find.
I personally consider grinding to be sending a large chunk of time performing the same action repeatedly to progress a potential goal, that goal could be to level up so that you can progress the story or it could be to farm for certain items. I use that definition because grinding don't have to be boring, games can have interesting systems to keep you entertained even with the grind, like with Monster Hunter. Grinding shows the games systems for exactly what they are, weather that be interesting or boring
wow, such an amazing perspective you have, glad I found you
Don’t hearthstones have a cast time so you don’t abuse it in fights?
It’s not a tool to escape a fight, it can be used to do so, but it’s hard.
I don't know about WoW as I never played it. But when I played the witcher i absolutely loved turning off the hud as much as possible and finding my way around just via the map. Riding along paths with roach and not activating/blending out the points of interest indicators and instead trying to look for interestingly looking things on the map/ enviroment themself .
A big part of always travelling per foot was probably also just how absolutely annoying the loading times for fast travel are.
Cuz when riding around I get to watch the scenery and get distracted and find smth new. And it might take me 5+ minutes to get somewhere.
But If I fast travel, great. I am where I need to be now but I spend 30+ seconds looking at a loading bar and a still image…
just discoverd your channel and so far I really like your content.
when I was working in a tabletop games association we had an expression (a bit hard to translate from french, it was "le jeu est la fiction du faire" jeu in french is the same word for game, play, acting its more generic, and faire can be translated as do or make but I would translate it as "game is fiction of doing"
when a child play at "doing the chores" its a game of imitation, for us grown up doing the dishes or passing the vacuum is not fun at all, but for a child it is a moment of game where they do like the adults and it is fun, and weirdly if you join a 3 year old doing the dishes with his plastic toy kitchen, you'll have a lot more fun than if you finish the pile of plate in the sink you tried to avoid those past 4 days.
reallity is full of waiting, dead time. and to bring immersion in our games I think we need a part of that. it bring immersion, we can immerge in a fantastic world because we can recognize those "banal" stuff we also do in real life, in a shorter, more gamy, version.
I can feel I'm a fisher because it took time to catch a fish, I can enjoy the beauty of a sunset because it took time waiting for it and it can only happens so often that it's relatively rare
how can i feel i'm a traveler if I don't take time to go to a place, if I don't lose time finding my way, how can i even feel i'm on a whole continent if I can go from each border in less than 5 minutes. of course the scale is reduced, I'm not sure i'd love to stay doing nothing on a boat for 2 months, but it needs enough time to feel like it's a journey. with time changing place is a decision with impact, If i leave it will take time, and the same amount to come back, have I enough things to do there to make it worth? have i done what i wanted to do here before I go?
"boring" mechanics also add contrast that make epic moment really shine, taking time cooking, waiting for a transport, traveling makes you feels "normal" a part of this fantastic world like everyone else, and if suddenly you defeat a dragon, well, you feel exceptionnal, it was unique and not the norm of "meh, I'm a dragon slayer that what I do every five minutes"
a mundane journey, eating, walking, camping that give all more impact to the excentricity of the reward.
and like you really well said it allows to do something else while playing. because in a world with always something to do, going to work, doing the chores, maintain your social life, taking care of your family… you manage to find time for yourself to play, but sometime having the game telling you "go ahead you can take a break in your gaming time…" it's weird but i'm gretefull for a game to offer me some "me" moment in the game.
The main game I play since a few years is Star Citizen, and even in its alpha, buggy, unfinished state it really brings me those elements.
you wake up in your room, you can make your cofee, you have to go to the metro station, take public trasnportation, wait on you seat that you arrive at your destination, walk to your ship, take of in space, mannualy flight to exit atmosphere before beeing able to make a jump to another planet, and this jump take time you travel at 1/6th the speed of light, planets can bea dozens of millions kilometers away. some travel will take 10 to 20 minutes, or can be even more if you installed a slow but fuel efficient space engine, all seamless with no teleport or loading screen. in this time you can talk with people on the global chat, go to the kitchen of your ship to grab a drink or make the maintenance of your component. or you can just do nothing, watch, or do something else open a video on youtube, go away from your keyboard.
and it is something most people I talked with in the game like, the down time, the possibility to take time, not be in a frenetical always running action where you are dropped in the heart of battle with no waiting times
and since the game gives us time players are more prone to occupy it with mondane ways, you will see players go to the club to dance, go ask for a mojito at the bar, or happy to answer the chat to any new player lost somewhere, even organising a rescue team to go find them.
I think mundanity is essential in game, because it is what mix our reality with our fantasy, without it we are just watching a screen, we would not look at a sunset, the suspension of disbelief wouldn't work and it would be some place in the map of a video game, we would not even try to belive in the existence of this virtual world.
(oups sorry I got carried away and make a long indigest comment, and also sorry for the probably numerous mistake in it since english is not my first language. I'll now proceed in watching your other content, keep up the good work 🙂
You would've loved Wildstar.
5:00 I, OUT LOUD, went "unghhhhhh," with such despair in my heart. The build up had me a bit skeptical I would actually have a reaction but goddamn did you deliver
Why do I agree with you that WoW classic is so grindy, but internally I keep thinking “but it’s so good, I like it”
Only nostalgia?
Someone probably already said this– if you're having fun, you are farming, but not grinding. Grinding is defined by not being fun, when you're grinding, *by definition*, you aren't happy.
You have never grinded, only farmed happily a lot.
I think this is like me and travelling by horse in The Witcher 3. A lot of people groan at it being the worst part of the game, but for me, sitting there with minimal button input, enjoying the gorgeous scenery as I navigate from place to place, trying to test my pitiful navigation memory but usually ending up looking at the minimap… I really appreciated that time, and I'm glad to have played that game with minimal fast travel so I was forced to experience that time 😊
a lot of my favorite games are ones where the focus of the experience is on the world, not your avatar per se. little things like navigating for yourself or waiting for a boat all add to that verisimilitude, that realness. all the weird quirks and arbitrary rules add up to make something that has a life of its own, and it's even better when you get to experience that with others. I believe you see some of this intention in breath of the wild as well! this kind of design approach is rarer these days and it does make me sad, but I cherish every game I can find that captures the magic of learning and becoming part of a world.
I think a lot about this is why I love the games I love
After watching this and your BOTW video I feel like Spiritfarer would be right up your alley. It has an amazing, fun to explore map that opens up as you explore and this same sense of mundanity is what the entire game is all about – all the while being a complete punch in the gut with the lore. Especially BECAUSE of how mundane and real it feels. You should give it a chance!
It is an optional form of play. You, running around, dancing on ships, chatting with Nessie, etc. etc. ARE playing. Mr. "Gosh dang gotta wait on the boat, no TIME to dance!" is not playing.
This was a great video! While I can't say I share the same love for that level of grinding or waiting, I do understand finding joy in the mundane, or finding enjoyment in a game in the "unintended" way. The Long Dark is a game that I find a lot of engagement in and much of it is slowly walking from place to place, or waiting for time to change or a storm to pass, but it does a great job at making those moments immersive and feel like a key part of the overall experience.
Before you mentioned knitting I was sitting there knitting thinking huh so its like knitting.
I found your channel today and have been binging your vids, and I really enjoyed this one! I've never played an MMO before, and honestly I never really understood the appeal of grinding, or other monotonous activities in games. Now, though, I feel like I really understand it — and have realized that I absolutely play games for that pleasant mundanity, even if I never realized.
In particular I really liked the section you had on those pleasant interactions with strangers, I've always been fascinated by games with low-communication multiplayer (e.g. Journey, Splatoon, etc.), and I love when it leads to these silent things of "you started dancing on a table, so I'm gonna dance on a table!" or "you started jumping in circles, so I'm gonna jump in circles!", so it was super interesting to hear your perspective on that
See, when you mentioned "grinding", I thought about Monster Hunter. And I adore the grind of hunting the same things over and over again
Awwwww. . . ❤
Old WoW was the best. (Hoard all the way, baby)
Agree with all of this 100%
Flying along the Flight Paths was one of my favorite things in the game
I loved the opportunity to "sightsee" so many of the unique and amazing environments.
Even after I had 30 badass flying mounts with Master Riding, I would still happily pay to travel along the Flight Paths and take those few minutes to relax and appreciate the beauty of Azeroth
This makes me want to play again. 😢
I smiled when you said "grinding", haha. I haven't played a lot of games with real time "waiting" mechanics like you describe in WoW, and I'm not the type to often go out of my way to grind in RPGs just to watch the numbers go up, but I often find myself gravitating to old, often-maligned RPGs like Earthbound Beginnings where grinding is necessary to keep up with the difficulty curve, or Igavanias like Castlevania or Bloodstained where part of the fun is untangling a massive ball of random drops to try and 100% them as efficiently as possible– I love repetitive activities where I can evaluate my performance on a go-by-go basis, like "hmm, that fight could have gone better" or "omg, I don't think I've ever got three critical hits in a row against those guys" or "hey, I wonder if I could kill this guy in one less attack if I switched weapons" or "if I go out of my way to increase my luck, I wonder if it would make a noticeable difference".
I think that might be why Terraria is my favorite game ever, LOL– grinding rare drops from enemies is so much fun to min-max, and that game offers enough creativity and player freedom to try different setups to really maximize your efficiency. It even has a really simple, relaxing fishing mechanic! I think it's also part of why I like cooking so much, LOL- there's something enamoring about becoming so familiar with a process that you can do it over and over and over again and never get tired of it because there's always something you can analyze, something you can take away no matter how seemingly repetitive it is.
Man, I wonder how differently my life would be if I'd actually gotten into WoW when I tried it in high school. I guess I'll never know, but it sure is interesting to think about :Vc
I watched your previous video on maps before coming to this one. When you mentioned to "stay tuned for your 1st favorite map" I knew it would be WoW. You have fine tastes in video game maps miss.
Some days I'd just fish in front of Wailing Chasm and sell Savory Deviate Delight in front of the Warsong Gulch portal – actually hit 300 fishing long before i hit level 60.
And yet it took me until level 48 to get my first mount because I always blew all that gold on obscure alchemy recipes, lol.
I still can't believe that the primary reason I stuck with the Mage class was because i found it hilarious that amidst the early spells of "Fireball", "Frostbolt", and "Arcane Missiles"
was "Conjure Muffins".
…And then conjured food/water turned out to be so unironically useful that people would actually pay me to make some for them (to say nothing of the ability to provide *literal fast travel services*).
Mages were so, so spoiled.
I LOVE to sit in (open world) video games! I love to follow NPCs around to see their routine and dialogue. I love to collect pretty things and lay them out in a nice arrangement sometimes. I love mundanity in (open world) video games… (And I LOVE open world video games lol) 200+ hours in BOTW (and probably will do the same in TOTK)
This was a trip down memory lane.
It's true in books and television too. You need those moments of mundanity, routine, calm, etc. to build out the world, and develop the characters. Have you ever watched a show which had this in the beginning but drops it in late seasons in favour of ever increasing stakes? Creators can lose touch with what made a series or genre great to begin with.
I've never played WoW but the love you and other fans have for it makes me sad I'll never be able to experience it.
Loved this video essay! Love the style of you talking to video, you have a really casual, engaging way of speaking. You have such a brilliant exploration of play, grinding and wanting realism. Amazing research! Love visual humour, like the cat and dog playing chess. You use such a breadth of examples, and your editing is so great! You do a great job of explaining why you enjoy something concisely – which can be super hard to articulate. I haven’t played many video games and am not very involved in the culture, but this was si interesting and engaging. I like your defence of grinding! I enjoy grinding in Minecraft. And also exploring the world and watching the sunset (I love you making those points). And one of my favourite games now is this idle-clicking game Animal Restaurant. Amazing that you mentioned the strikes and linked the strike fund at the end! Liked and subscribed!
You hit the nail on the head as to why WoW is one of my favourite games. It allows you to just exist in the game world, part of that means having the mundane be a thing that you then actively engage in. Some of my best moments were just very casually grinding out or exploring or running lower level dungeons. Thanks for posting and have been loving the channel so far 💕
17:48 ur so real for that
I like to call the moments of mundanity or downtime in my favorite games "time well-wasted"
Its kind of nuts how much this video talks about gameplay elements in MMOs that aren't really as around anymore. This is pretty much what any guy that goes "I miss how MMOs used to be" points out.
i got into WoW just yesterday (or i guess 2 days ago at this point as it's now 5 am lmao), so its a very happy coincidence to see this after finding your channel today
I love this video. I always crank it up at "daaance with me… please daaaance with me" 😔
I can't stop listening to this video. It's so pure, so authentic, so true. I listen to it on loop while I play Euro & American Truck Simulator
More Murluks for the fire!!
😢😢
Most of the time im not a big fan of grinding, but good lord I love OPTIMIZING the grinding 😂. Realm Grinder was like a laboratory drug just for me 😅