Lol… crying about the melee range. Im sorry, but they are MELEE ranged classes. Kinda dictates where they should be dont you agree ? All these changes, the tank nerfs, the melee range nerfs, all this stuff is just taking the game back to how it was (and should be imo)
Honestly, all of the changes I've been seeing coming out of beta are confusing and it's making me a bit concerned that Blizzard has once more lost the plot. So let's rewind a bit. First we have talks about more content being made harder, then we have talk about melee classes losing some of their range, now we have melee being pushed out of melee range, then we have tanks getting nerfed, healers getting nerfed….. What are we doing exactly? Can someone explain the philosophy here? Because from where I'm standing, this is starting to spiral out of control again.
spear flurry had like a 0.8 cast time not really very dangerous but it would sometimes combo with the caster mobs who had an aoe root cast. its only deadly if that cast went off
Oh boy how lovely yet more knock backs. Who in their right mind ever said this was fun in any way shape or form? Are these people not capable of making a challenging AND fun encounter? it seems like more often than not the only capable of making challenging AND annoying encounters.
These changes are concerning to me and in all honesty as much as I like the game being a little for difficult for DPS and Tanks (for more logical reasons) like having them required to use their interrupts and be mindful of using their restablished CC abilities, I think just outright nerfing them into the ground is a VERY unhealthy philosophy. I personally enjoyed WoW a lot more back when healers all around had more hard casts, there weren't all these insanely complicated mechanics, melee DPS were good, ranged as somewhat difficult depending on what you played but still achieveable with a little effort, and dungeons even at lower levels required the tanks to be mindful of their pulls because it would be punishing to overpull or how DPS had to focus certain adds to ensure there was no build up, but now? Now it just feels like Blizzard has lost their collective minds because healers feel like shit to play and none of them really have their own clear distinct identity anymore, casters all feel the same and lack their own flavor, melee feels clunky AF, and tanks feel squishy and chunky all at the same time and the oddest of times.
Ugh – just like Cata – melee always had ridiculously low uptimes because of avoiding quakes and poison puddles and everything else pushing them out of range, while ranged sat back and rofled at them.
Rogues were like 1% in M+. Now it's a funeral for this class. How the f* Outlaw has supposed to AOE with reduced range while all his AOE comes from ST attacks? Has to literally sit on a mob to AOE anything around it. No cone attacks, no ground/range AOE, nothing. Everything comes from ST dmg just cleaving. Reduced range affects everything. Like half the classes are half baked. Having talent trees nerfed because of the lackluster hero talents. At this point I wish these were just purely cosmetic and instead they put some effort fixing existing talent trees. Healers gonna have a tough time. HP increased, AOE healing nerfed, yet same spiky dmg in dungeons almost one shotting ppl. But then you will also have to focus on Tank much more. Will be even harder for a healer to do any DPS now. But ofc it will be expected because some healer specs just heal through doing dmg. So ofc every healer has to dps at least on a similar level. This whole design is all over the place. Idk, maybe it's true that every other expansion is ok. DF was ok. I am expecting Shadowlands 2.0 which will be again enjoyable mid Season 3.
Ps. My plans were to play Assa/Outlaw Rogue, VDH, Holy Priest, maybe Prevoker. I am done. Guess I will just level a hunter, play for a bit and return in a year..
Melee should be forced to be in melee range 10 yards to do damage. All the melee in the game has ranged abilities which I think is bull shit. If you want to be a warrior then be a warrior and go toe to toe not stand 25 yards back and throw shit at the target. I like what blizzard is doing with melee their weakness should be they can't dps if not in range.
To be fair, most of the raids and dungeons have very 'melee' friendly. As a ranged dps, I've learned to STAND WITH THE MELEE, except during spread mechanics. I also stand with melee as healer too. Have melee gotten too spoiled? Melee rarely if ever feel the urge to do mechanics or even interrupt. It's time for them to have to work a little harder for it maybe? I know I will get flamed for this comment; but having lots of melee dps in my stable alongside my healers/ranged…I learned REAL QUICK that melee was so much easier. I say to melee to 'learn how to really participate and not just 'pew pew'.
at this point who cares everything you say will fall on deaf ears, let the melee players unsub and go elsewhere, its the only real way to slap Blizzard in the mouth to make honest changes or revert changes. a threat of another mass exodus.
Blizzard = 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Hope they fix this before it goes live. First 2 months of launch is critical. You give people a frustrating experience and you lose subs. You know how to get things right :Panda Remix. People want to have fun – not struggle. People want to feel powerful – not weak. People want some challenge but not too much and too difficult. It's been over 20 years so you guys have no excuse. You know the sweet spot so use that knowledge correctly.
I recorded some of my last runs. I play as affliction/destro lock and after rewatching I could confirm what I did feel all along. I got to stop more than half of my casts. I'm really tired of that it pulls me down.
It's like Blizzard is compensating for removing the affixes that could make a dungeon harder by adding more BS to adds. Melee has always gotten the short end of the stick. Cries in fury warrior.
Feral druids will be resource starved? What do you mean? Feral is already starved. If this is true, will this mean, that Feral players can now make and drink and a whole cup of coffee between each use of resource spenders?
lol this, along with many many other reasons is why the majority of the player base doesnt give an f about tryharding endgame anymore. the juice just isnt worth the squeeze. game should be fun, not annoying, at any level. theres a difference between challenging, and annoying.
once there was a game i played that made some changes the community was upset about gameplay wise. they had a stream where the community could interact with them. the lead CM told the community to stop being negative and offer solutions for the problems the Devs had created. of course those problems were created to milk more money out of the player base, cuz you know, modern gaming.
the balls on this person to say that. its not our job as players to do YOUR JOBS for you. as paying customers, its our job to enjoy the games you produce enough to continue to pay for YOUR JOBS.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I kind of miss the days of having to kite mobs around as a tank. It made the gameplay a bit more engaging. I know I'm biased because I play a bear tank and I'm typically VERY self-reliant and have experience with moving mobs appropriately. But for all those BDK mains out there I feel kind of bad for them since they rely so heavily on death strike. This definitely seems like an expansion where less people are likely to want to main, continue to main, or even try out tanking.
Invalidating nearly all player feedback from the beta at the last minute is wild. The dungeons are overtuned already, they just nerfed tanks, melee is already WAY harder to play than ranged is and now they're undermining all the affix changes.
If I were in charge at Blizzard I would be firing almost the entire combat design team. These changes are neurotic. It's like someone is on some kind of power trip and they're just spitefully trying to embed all of the misery they took out of the game back in via different methods.
Also whoever is doing Feral is honestly just ruining the spec.
I did a lot of playtesting with Feral on the Beta and it's a disaster. Like, you can still put up okay damage but it isn't nearly as fun as the spec was in 10.0.0.
The class tree is still terrible, the tigers fury changes are awful, they kept all of the bad changes they made to Berserk in 10.0.7, both hero talents treat Feral like the red headed step child and neither synergize well with the kit.
Druid of the Claw should be absolutely incredible, it could have focused on bear/cat weaving and alternating resources to spend/making sure that playstyle is buttery smooth. Instead we have some half cocked incentive to mangle that doesn't even hit that hard. It's janky to use / track and it doesn't really feel fun. Ravage doesn't even have a UI element to notify you when it pops, it just changes the icon… so they're just introducing two more procs you have to fix with addons to display properly.
The Feral tree is also terrible still, it's starved for points at the bottom, there are still way too many berserk related talents and they didn't do anything to actually improve how Feral feels after ruining their energy regen.
I wrote a big ass feedback thing on the beta forums but I imagine it was completely wasted time seeing as how they value player feedback so little they're just completely invalidating almost all of it with these stupid tanking/dungeon changes.
I just can't wrap my head around it. Someone at Blizzard is actively sabotaging this game imo.
Its so weird because they should be removing defensives/self healing from everyone and even though they are sort of doing that to tanks, they then take away offensive power from dpss. I dont trully mind the melee change, it is kind of like aranged crying about having to stop casting, but resource starving should be something for healers not other roles, imo.
What is the problem here? These are great changes. Melee feels so stupid right now. I stand at the same range no matter what class I play? That's dumb. The game needs to become more methodical and thoughtful in ways like range and tanking instead of ever increasingly stupid weak aura mechanics.
Instead of this why not just reduce the number of gap closes melee have? and to keep it even do the same with some ranged (looking at mage shimmer and displacement)
Pretty good for a game that costs about 200 bucks a year to play.
Guess its hard to please everyone smh
Lol… crying about the melee range. Im sorry, but they are MELEE ranged classes. Kinda dictates where they should be dont you agree ? All these changes, the tank nerfs, the melee range nerfs, all this stuff is just taking the game back to how it was (and should be imo)
I loved emissaries back in BFA, laughed my ass off to peeps cannoning the reflecting one in Tol Dagor. Fucking great times 😀
Laughs in mage.
Honestly, all of the changes I've been seeing coming out of beta are confusing and it's making me a bit concerned that Blizzard has once more lost the plot.
So let's rewind a bit. First we have talks about more content being made harder, then we have talk about melee classes losing some of their range, now we have melee being pushed out of melee range, then we have tanks getting nerfed, healers getting nerfed….. What are we doing exactly?
Can someone explain the philosophy here? Because from where I'm standing, this is starting to spiral out of control again.
be specific… M+ melee players(who cares about that)
spear flurry had like a 0.8 cast time
not really very dangerous but it would sometimes combo with the caster mobs who had an aoe root cast. its only deadly if that cast went off
Oh boy how lovely yet more knock backs. Who in their right mind ever said this was fun in any way shape or form? Are these people not capable of making a challenging AND fun encounter? it seems like more often than not the only capable of making challenging AND annoying encounters.
That reddit moderator looking guy gives me weird vibes with his little anime girl shirts
More mobs need to cast strong heals that need to be interrupted. Stack up too many of them and they might out heal your damage.
I am like number 62
Yooooou got me..Clickbait
As long as Blizz keeps adding mechankcs that force players out of melee range every range should have a bit if range
… how about, we just make it fun for everyone? including the range classes
I don't sign on to a video game going "okay, time to bust my balls!"
These changes are concerning to me and in all honesty as much as I like the game being a little for difficult for DPS and Tanks (for more logical reasons) like having them required to use their interrupts and be mindful of using their restablished CC abilities, I think just outright nerfing them into the ground is a VERY unhealthy philosophy. I personally enjoyed WoW a lot more back when healers all around had more hard casts, there weren't all these insanely complicated mechanics, melee DPS were good, ranged as somewhat difficult depending on what you played but still achieveable with a little effort, and dungeons even at lower levels required the tanks to be mindful of their pulls because it would be punishing to overpull or how DPS had to focus certain adds to ensure there was no build up, but now? Now it just feels like Blizzard has lost their collective minds because healers feel like shit to play and none of them really have their own clear distinct identity anymore, casters all feel the same and lack their own flavor, melee feels clunky AF, and tanks feel squishy and chunky all at the same time and the oddest of times.
Ugh – just like Cata – melee always had ridiculously low uptimes because of avoiding quakes and poison puddles and everything else pushing them out of range, while ranged sat back and rofled at them.
>>>>> Tanks get nerfed
>>>>> Kiting becomes the rule in m+
>>>>> Tanks lose aggro while kiting
>>>>> Goodbye lil warrior 😂
I'd ask is something really ruined if something is harder compared to other roles?
Almost a week before the prepatch expansion launches and so many things are not even close to being ready, just think of that.
Rogues were like 1% in M+. Now it's a funeral for this class. How the f* Outlaw has supposed to AOE with reduced range while all his AOE comes from ST attacks? Has to literally sit on a mob to AOE anything around it. No cone attacks, no ground/range AOE, nothing. Everything comes from ST dmg just cleaving. Reduced range affects everything.
Like half the classes are half baked. Having talent trees nerfed because of the lackluster hero talents. At this point I wish these were just purely cosmetic and instead they put some effort fixing existing talent trees.
Healers gonna have a tough time. HP increased, AOE healing nerfed, yet same spiky dmg in dungeons almost one shotting ppl. But then you will also have to focus on Tank much more. Will be even harder for a healer to do any DPS now. But ofc it will be expected because some healer specs just heal through doing dmg. So ofc every healer has to dps at least on a similar level. This whole design is all over the place. Idk, maybe it's true that every other expansion is ok. DF was ok. I am expecting Shadowlands 2.0 which will be again enjoyable mid Season 3.
Ps. My plans were to play Assa/Outlaw Rogue, VDH, Holy Priest, maybe Prevoker. I am done. Guess I will just level a hunter, play for a bit and return in a year..
Melee should be forced to be in melee range 10 yards to do damage. All the melee in the game has ranged abilities which I think is bull shit. If you want to be a warrior then be a warrior and go toe to toe not stand 25 yards back and throw shit at the target. I like what blizzard is doing with melee their weakness should be they can't dps if not in range.
To be fair, most of the raids and dungeons have very 'melee' friendly. As a ranged dps, I've learned to STAND WITH THE MELEE, except during spread mechanics. I also stand with melee as healer too. Have melee gotten too spoiled? Melee rarely if ever feel the urge to do mechanics or even interrupt. It's time for them to have to work a little harder for it maybe? I know I will get flamed for this comment; but having lots of melee dps in my stable alongside my healers/ranged…I learned REAL QUICK that melee was so much easier. I say to melee to 'learn how to really participate and not just 'pew pew'.
nice one blizzard 😒😒😒
at this point who cares everything you say will fall on deaf ears, let the melee players unsub and go elsewhere, its the only real way to slap Blizzard in the mouth to make honest changes or revert changes. a threat of another mass exodus.
Blizzard = 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Hope they fix this before it goes live. First 2 months of launch is critical. You give people a frustrating experience and you lose subs. You know how to get things right :Panda Remix. People want to have fun – not struggle. People want to feel powerful – not weak. People want some challenge but not too much and too difficult. It's been over 20 years so you guys have no excuse. You know the sweet spot so use that knowledge correctly.
I recorded some of my last runs. I play as affliction/destro lock and after rewatching I could confirm what I did feel all along. I got to stop more than half of my casts. I'm really tired of that it pulls me down.
It's like Blizzard is compensating for removing the affixes that could make a dungeon harder by adding more BS to adds. Melee has always gotten the short end of the stick. Cries in fury warrior.
Feral druids will be resource starved? What do you mean? Feral is already starved. If this is true, will this mean, that Feral players can now make and drink and a whole cup of coffee between each use of resource spenders?
M+ is so biased towards ranged already. It's not even funny.
lol this, along with many many other reasons is why the majority of the player base doesnt give an f about tryharding endgame anymore. the juice just isnt worth the squeeze. game should be fun, not annoying, at any level. theres a difference between challenging, and annoying.
once there was a game i played that made some changes the community was upset about gameplay wise. they had a stream where the community could interact with them. the lead CM told the community to stop being negative and offer solutions for the problems the Devs had created. of course those problems were created to milk more money out of the player base, cuz you know, modern gaming.
the balls on this person to say that. its not our job as players to do YOUR JOBS for you. as paying customers, its our job to enjoy the games you produce enough to continue to pay for YOUR JOBS.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I kind of miss the days of having to kite mobs around as a tank. It made the gameplay a bit more engaging. I know I'm biased because I play a bear tank and I'm typically VERY self-reliant and have experience with moving mobs appropriately. But for all those BDK mains out there I feel kind of bad for them since they rely so heavily on death strike. This definitely seems like an expansion where less people are likely to want to main, continue to main, or even try out tanking.
Crying as a MW
Invalidating nearly all player feedback from the beta at the last minute is wild. The dungeons are overtuned already, they just nerfed tanks, melee is already WAY harder to play than ranged is and now they're undermining all the affix changes.
If I were in charge at Blizzard I would be firing almost the entire combat design team. These changes are neurotic. It's like someone is on some kind of power trip and they're just spitefully trying to embed all of the misery they took out of the game back in via different methods.
Also whoever is doing Feral is honestly just ruining the spec.
I did a lot of playtesting with Feral on the Beta and it's a disaster. Like, you can still put up okay damage but it isn't nearly as fun as the spec was in 10.0.0.
The class tree is still terrible, the tigers fury changes are awful, they kept all of the bad changes they made to Berserk in 10.0.7, both hero talents treat Feral like the red headed step child and neither synergize well with the kit.
Druid of the Claw should be absolutely incredible, it could have focused on bear/cat weaving and alternating resources to spend/making sure that playstyle is buttery smooth. Instead we have some half cocked incentive to mangle that doesn't even hit that hard. It's janky to use / track and it doesn't really feel fun. Ravage doesn't even have a UI element to notify you when it pops, it just changes the icon… so they're just introducing two more procs you have to fix with addons to display properly.
The Feral tree is also terrible still, it's starved for points at the bottom, there are still way too many berserk related talents and they didn't do anything to actually improve how Feral feels after ruining their energy regen.
I wrote a big ass feedback thing on the beta forums but I imagine it was completely wasted time seeing as how they value player feedback so little they're just completely invalidating almost all of it with these stupid tanking/dungeon changes.
I just can't wrap my head around it. Someone at Blizzard is actively sabotaging this game imo.
Its so weird because they should be removing defensives/self healing from everyone and even though they are sort of doing that to tanks, they then take away offensive power from dpss. I dont trully mind the melee change, it is kind of like aranged crying about having to stop casting, but resource starving should be something for healers not other roles, imo.
What is the problem here? These are great changes. Melee feels so stupid right now. I stand at the same range no matter what class I play? That's dumb. The game needs to become more methodical and thoughtful in ways like range and tanking instead of ever increasingly stupid weak aura mechanics.
Oh this is about mythic content. Nothing to see here.
Instead of this why not just reduce the number of gap closes melee have? and to keep it even do the same with some ranged (looking at mage shimmer and displacement)
It is not enought problems as a melee character… And we add even more.
"You mean I HAVE TO do mechanics??? AND invite healers?!?! OMG R U I N E D!!!!!!!!"