EARLY LEAVERS In Mythic Keystones | Discussing Fixes – WoW Shadowlands



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Early leavers of dungeons – notably Mythic Keystones – have been a hot topic for years. Here are my thoughts on how to approach this narrow but extremely annoying problem.

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0:00 =)
2:26 Negative Reinforcement
9:50 Positive Reinforcement

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36 thoughts on “EARLY LEAVERS In Mythic Keystones | Discussing Fixes – WoW Shadowlands”

  1. Allow a group to invite a new player with a 1 or 3 lvl drop in the key. 1 Level if a person left and 3 if you kicked them. The leaving player gets 1 "get off scott free" card/week and subsequent leaves knock 1 run off your vault total.

    This penalizes the leaving player and discourages a group being a dick just to be one. This also allows for "oh noes…I have to go because of reasons" without allowing consistent abuse.

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  2. I find it hilarious to watch you slowly turn into Ion:
    Inventing systems to fix social problems caused by another overdesigned system.

    It is really not that hard to understand.
    M+ is an awesome system the way it is for groups of players that know each other.
    But a random M+ is basically like Solo Queue in LoL, build to breed toxicity.

    Over the years WoW has understandably catered more and more towards players, that:
    A) want to play solo most of the time
    B) don't want to have to be restricted to the play hours of a set group of players
    C) still want to focus on power progression for their main character, not just cosmetics

    These players can now lvl up and gear a character to the point, where only group content like M+ will give them power, in about a week or two.
    At that point they have either do rated PvP or M+ with random players.
    So you end up with hundreds of thousands of players that are only there for the reward.

    Now this is where the "overdesigned" part comes in.
    The M+ system has just sooo many extra rules, that hard dungeons of the past never had or needed:
    1) Someone needs to bring a key
    2) That key has to fit the dungeon
    3) The key needs to be leveled before that by "pushing" it
    4) "Pushing" means you have to do other keys very fast
    5) High level M+ dungeons run on a tight timer that harshly affects your rewards if not met
    6) Once started, you have to stick to the party you started with
    7) Reseting reduced the key level
    8) Loot from all bosses is combined into a single chest at the end

    And all of these rules create the environment that M+ groups are formed and played in.
    If Blizzard really wants to solve these behaviour problems, they have to adress these rules.

    And I think, this will mean removing alot of the restrictions and rules, like
    1) removing keys entirely
    2) removing the timer
    3) let people invite new group members at any point

    There is just no need to push people into these "ohh, this run is doomed" or "my key is ruined" scenarios.
    If there is no weekly lock-out anyway, why bother with all these extra systems.
    It is simply a hard dungeon.

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  3. The fix is easy, allow mythics in the Q up to a certain level. Then if you get a leaver you can just Q and fill the spot while continuing the clear. I have never had a someone leave without it being an actual emergency past KS8, so 8 would by my peak level on Qs.

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  4. Meh I'm sorry but this whole topic is just inane. I'll keep leaving groups that fail because bashing my head into a wall with strangers raging at each other isn't fun, and that's why I'm here.

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  5. I think instead of putting a deserter debuff on someone, it may be better to flag someone (color their name in lfg) as an early leaver depending on a few conditions, such as:
    Did the player leave immediately
    Did they leave after a certain amount of bosses
    How much did they participate in the prior group

    The more you leave groups in quick succession, the more severe (or deeper color) your flag will be. It can be lightened or removed overtime by successfully completing dungeons via LFG without a guild or friend made group.

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  6. Maybe WoW should institute a FFXIV-style Commendation System. But probably only for Mythic+ – it wouldn't make sense to let people get them anywhere else (FFXIV uses the same system in dungeons, raids, and PVP because it is really just a set of achievements).

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  7. just put a difficulty selector on the lfg tool. that way i can que for a normal raid group or a +3 mythic dungeon. then you have the option to vote to kick when you have a dick player and you can que for a replacement. there will be a built in minimum to que for a certain difficulty to minimize carries. no more elitist dickheads not letting you in a group because your raid.io score isn't high enough. the debuff can be more severe if you abandon your group because you didn't like the first pull or you didn't get your god damn memory on the first boss and left the group like a dick head. not saying take away what we have now. just add another option to get more players doing more content.

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  8. The new raider.io system that's going to be baseline should show how many dungeons you left. And maybe a deserter debuff that changes your title to dungeon deserter for a few days until you manage to not leave them for certain number of runs.

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  9. There should be a 'roster' of early leavers posted near the summoning stones. You can interact with the item and it lets you enter a name so you can see how often and recently they have left.

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  10. Is this still a problem for people? I haven't seen nearly as many leavers this expansion so far. I figured that the change to the weekly chest where its based on how many dungeons you complete instead of just your highest key fixed the leaving problem.

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  11. The problem is they just leave when they think that it will not finish in time. Some of my run have only a bit of mistake and one person just blame other and leave. These happened a lot in 10+ key. Also raider.io is just a number nowaday, ppl buy run all the time it make 900-1.2k io doesn't really mean anything. Find quite a lot of these ppl in lfg only have the key but not skillplay.(as I'm 1.7k with +18 passed all dunge)​

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  12. I would say nothing should reset at reset. Let it be a rolling 7 or 10 or 30 days. If points/debuffs/whatever reset on tuesday/wednesday then that gives trolls free reign to screw with people on reset.

    I think a scoreboard, in game or perhaps part of r.io, showing the number of started keys, completed keys, and incomplete keys would be useful to those people that regularly pug. If someone shows that over the last (again, rolling) 10 days, they've completed 24 keys and abandoned 1, then they're almost certainly good to invite (and you can see completed key levels through r.io already). IMO, there's just no need for points, debuffs, player ratings, scoring, etc. Make the information available, and people will decide the best way to use it.

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  13. No I don't agree, no more systems to fix social issues, if you are tired of people leaving your keys, find a guild, a group or reliable friends. These type of systems remove any sort of social interaction in trade for a number next to the players name.

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  14. So I join a group the dungeon starts, the group can't interrupt, dont know mechanics, and have low dps. I'm the bd guy for leaving the group? I dont spend $15 a month to teach tards how to play.

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  15. If someone leaves your key sub 50% of the trash being done it should not deplete your key, if you killed above 50% trash then it should deplete. Then nobody will care as much if a person leaves a key.

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  16. What you refer to as negative reinforcement is actually called positive punishment by psychologists. Positive/negative punishment/reinforcement don't mean what I think you think they mean 🙂

    Edit: because I realised this wasn't a helpful comment:

    Positive/negative: whether something is being added or removed to change the desired behaviour.

    Reinforcement/punishment: whether the added/removed factor aims to reinforce or discourage the behaviour.

    So something like giving a deserter debuff would be positive punishment (you add a disincentive). Earning a way to remove it would be negative reinforcement (removing something undesirable to reward a desired behaviour). Etc etc.

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  17. I understand why leaving a pug to run with your friends or guild seems like it should be acceptable, but like it or not, when you join a pug, you are making a commitment of time to that group also. And when you bail on that group to go do that other run, you are fucking the other people who made that same commitment to honor YOUR time. And that makes it seem like we’ll if you’re going to pug, that’s the risk you run. But how is that fair? Or ok? You’re being a sick needlessly. People leaving groups is a huge problem this xpac and it’s killed my vibe to almost not play any group content at all.

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  18. The "mark of the leaver" thing sounds like a good idea. However, I also think there should be a way for people still in the key not having to auto-deplete the key. I mean, this may not be the vast majority of cases, but while playing with my friends there were times where we fucked up at the beginning but managed to barely time the key.
    We are not always a group of 5, so when we get random players into our key, having one leave means we deplete, but we would have continued anyways. What I mean is, why not have the timer pause when someone leaves the party? This would allow the rest to look for another person who would like to try. May not be a solution to the current issues with M+, but could make it so people wouldn't get as frustrated.
    Anyways, thanks for this analysis, Soul. It's because of people like you that I still believe we can have a good game with a healthy community. There are enough "hater" content creators out there, glad to have you here on my feed every time you post a video. Thank you so much!

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  19. Make an ingame black list that can be shared among players, leavers/toxic players, etc. will be banned from the groups and learn to be better people or depends exclusively on friends to make group content.

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  20. The vote to abandon is what ffxiv uses. It punishes people for leaving early but if the group as a whole decides to abandon no penalties. If you leave and get the abandon debuff you can not que for anything for an hour.

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  21. Bless your soul , Soul.
    the way you present different ideas is very nice , where you think about all the different outcomes.
    Keep it up , and as always … love to see you both on stream and videos

    -Alsh

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  22. I tank. Mythics is toxic af. I was on my dk.. HoA i asked the druid healer to drop a vortx and soothe the dogs right? His reply. I HAVE A 1500IO i know how to play.. we get to second boss not one single vortex or soothe… when i asked again… he leaves. Kills the key… so its the players. The game is toxic and old. Im a returning play from wotlk and its never ever been this shitty. I have like 20 more stories like that… wow is trash my sub stops tomorrow. I wont be buying it again.

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  23. Nooo nooo nooo its just another way to shame people. You already need a io of 1500 for a 7…. and just another system like raider io, parcing, and logs.. its just tools to shame people. Im glad im not resubbing. The Games players are toxic af.

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  24. Bruh.. wow is for a bunch of losers who never get poon to rage on others to make themselves feel superior. So many toxic players. And you want them to be harmonious. Lmfao. Wows dead bruh. Same hamster wheel.

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  25. They can take a cue from Overwatch's stacking reputation system. At the end of a dungeon, each player has a commendation to give to any other player. Players with high commendation ranks at the end of a season get unique rewards. If a player leaves early, their reputation takes a hit and goes down. If their reputation is too low, they should be unable to run keys for a limited time. Reputation then resets to a baseline every week. The group should also be able to vote to abandon if there's no hope working together.

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