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This week Dratnos and Tettles rank the Shadowlands dungones. Overall the point of this video was to talk through the dungeons, what were the points they liked, and what points they did not like. This is meant to be constructive and show the devs what potentially they should carry into the future!
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Not all commenters wear capes. But this one does.
Fun discussion. Thanks lads.
Dos – I hated Mueh-zela because as a tank you needed the healer to do damage. At least in my group, I as the tank couldn't solo the totem. And the healer I usually got stuck with absolutely refused to do damage, besides incidental divine star hits. It makes that boss incredibly frustrating.
Mists – I don't know why, but my group loves Mists. I hate it, completely. When I'm tanking people get r****ed. Dying to basic mechanics. Can't avoid 2nd boss balls. Refuse to interrupt gorm heals, refuse to mass dispel shields. My best key in there was a 16 that I pugged. Oh and the timer isn't "free" when people get stupid. You're burning that key every time.
Sanguine – I mostly like SD. I just hated how strong and basically mandatory having a venthyr in there is. The lanterns feel far stronger than the spears in Spires. I'm one of the few probably that like the gauntlet, I just wish my group knew how to focus the boss while interrupting the casters…
no Tazavesh ?
No Streets? No Gambit? D:
S: Mechanics and overall variety
A: Artwork
B: Pathing options
C: Map Layouts
D (aka. Swampass): Tuning of Outliers
I strongly disagree with your list, based on my scheme above! Especially I disagree with the general sentiment that big pulls are always better than minibosses or mobs with crazy mechanics. Also I like long dungeons, if they are epic. Halls of Valor was epic. DoS not.
Where other 2 at? Gambit is a sick key.
S: Halls of Atonement
A: Sanguine Depths, Plaguefall
B: De Other Side, Theatre of Pain
C: Spires of Ascension
D: Mists of Tirna Scythe, The Necrotic Wake
Mists first two bosses are awful, maze was "cute" initially but after 100+ runs is nothing but a nuisance. Everything after the second boss is pretty good. Most of the trash is garbage and you have few options to do big pulls until after the second boss. Not all groups can pull through walls. Only redeeming factor is Tredova being an 'S' tier boss fight.
The Necrotic Wake weapons are a big reason why I dislike this dungeon. Proper weapon usage is more important than anything else. The second boss's initial tuning/mechanics was poop. Third boss had way too many bugs and finnicky mechanics. Fourth boss, if the "throw a dps away" mechanic did not exist, would have been fairly good but having third into fourth boss with nothing between them meant it would be a long boring fight.
De Other Side had a lot of route variety through the seasons, but the Mechagon wing brings it down a ton.
Yall hit exactly why Spires sucks, it is easy though. Did not mind Theatre of Pain, unlike De Other Side though, doing different wings in different orders never really panned out. Camera issues during Gorechop were annoying. Transition from first boss to next pull was too long.
How is DoS not S tier when you have HoA there, which absolutely requires you to have a venthyr and a skip? Lost all cred there for this video.
When speaking of thinks that are not fun, it always comes down to one mechanic imho, mechanics that are just "deal more damage". Anything where the mechanic requires you to just deal damage are not fun especially when you have dungeon scaling. Hakar shields, mists first boss, muzala totems, etc. It gets to a point where you just can't do it and that isn't fun. Even things like the adds on the first boss of plaguefall have this issue. If you can't deal enough damage, the boss just heals and you lose. Of course that boss is mitigated a lot because you can cc the adds so I don't think it is bad. Scaling should not multiplicatively increase the time or difficulty of a boss because of boss mechanics. Don't give the boss shields, don't heal bosses (unless there is a way to stop it with mechanics like the first boss of Sanguine Depths), don't give us phases were we can damage the boss that only last a specific amount of time, etc.
S: HOA, Gambit
A: Mists, NW
B: Streets
C: TOP, PF
D: SOA, SD, DOS
Necrotic Wake was my favorite dungeon before Gambit. Love it. I don't push higher than 20ish tho
The spires angel transport is so unforgivably bad, especially considering that Bastion is actually full of teleporters all over the place.
They need to cut out "guessing games, portals, playing in bands" stuff like that. When the play is to go get a WA to figure it out for your, that's not really working out as intended.
You criminally underrate NW, damn. I get the point of "the weapons are too strong" but that's still a dungeon pretty open with a lot of creavity allowed in routings, plenty of huge pulls (although they are helped by weapons), an extremely short timer, etc. To me it has a lot of similarities with HoA in regards to their strong points, and NW even has a good idea of not having trash respawn points. Definitely in my top 3 dungeons.
Some heroes don’t wear capes.
Dratnos always has pretty good takes, while dratnos's little sidekick has the worst takes ever.
imo:
S-)N/A
A)Halls
B)NW. Mists
C)DoS PF, Spires
D)SD, ToP
Spires slaps
#CommenterCrew
King’s Rest is my favorite dungeon because I could actually get invited. Also VDH vs Zul was not a problem
One thing that maybe would have been fun with Top is if you only had to do 2 of the 3 wings so maybe based of affix you go different combos of wings might have been fun
Dos and nw both I would say c theater I honestly enjoyed the bosses except gorechop. Spires def mega ass but only one I don't agree with is dos
S– Halls of Atonement
A– Sanguine Depths, Necrotic Wake
B– Tazavesh Gambit, Theatre of Pain, De Other Side
C– Mists, Streets of Wonder,
D– Plaguefall, Spires of Ascension
Sanguine Depths, Necrotic Wake, and Halls are fun. I search out those keys. Plaguefall and Spires I just avoid at all costs.
Encrypted definitely affects the grade on these dungeons. Gambit will change a lot without Encrypted.
Sanguine and Plaugefall would be my two top pick, as a healer.
Halls would probably be a "B" rank for me. Mainly because of how little the skill is required of the healer. Other than that, it's a fine dungeon.
F: SD and ToP, not fun and just annoying
Rank affixes and which affixes should be removed like necrotic
Tettles truly suffers from a terminal case of DPS brain. 20 useless mobs to aoe=great, interesting boss designs and small packs=horrible
Halls had so many bosses change mechanics during alpha / beta that the instance was obviously completely rushed and not ready for launch. I don´t know how anyone can think that standing behind a lantern is an interesting / fun mechanic. Halls being rated S just because it was an open dungeon shows this is without a doubt the worst iteration of M+ thus far, especially given how we basically only had 8 dungeons for the entirety of the expansion.
I mostly agree with these but NW and PF in C tier is a crime. Those are freest most chill dungeons and I would put both at least in A tier. Also Spires is not that bad, it should be 1 tier higher, no Shadowlands dungeon is D tier imo.
S – Necrotic Wake
A – Halls, Mists
B – Spires, Plaguefall
C – De Other Side
D – Theater of Pain, Sanguine Depths
I really liked DoS in s1 but it's just such a long dungeon that over time it has become one of my least favorites. Theater is just stressful and you feel like you're on the knifes edge the whole run trying to time high keys in it imo. Sanguine is not a badly designed dungeon, and it is pretty fun but it's just way too hard compared to the other dungeons. I never met someone in the 27-30 key range that enjoys getting a Sanguine key so saying that high key pushers like this dungeon is a bit foreign atleast to me.
Was a pretty good expansion m+ wise I think. For Dragonflight don't make some covenants-style mandatory especially if you cant swap around freely to them. S1 and half of S2 was quiet painful due to this. Had to sit 30-60 minutes sometimes just finding a WW monk or a SP for the necro dungeons. Overall I had some fun playing tons of m+ in SL 😀
I really loved King's Rest…'s last boss. It was so much fun as a guardian druid since it was very low damage into very high damage and you could not have ironfur before stacking 3 to soak that. I also like multiple phase bosses as a dps since they don't feel so monotonous on higher tyrannical keys. it was just a shame that the rest of the dungeon was not super great.
NW is my favorite dungeon
Points i 100% agree with. Long dungeons = bad, tight corridors and forced pulls/ linearity = bad, DR mobs scattered through trash pulls = bad. RP = cool and immersive the first 1 or 2 times but annoying and frustrating every time there after when i've got a timer ticking down and I can't do anything until the RP is finished.
My least favourite dungeon by a long stretch is ToP, its so long and has a lot of crappy trash pulls and very little differences in how the dungeon is approached. Also hard agree with SD having not 1 but 3 really challenging bosses is overkill and a really punishing snowball effect when things go wrong that make it really tough to recover from. Also Grand proctor Beryllia can get yeeted into the maw, i hate that boss so much as a caster.
Don’t mind me, just feeding the algorithm.
I can't wait for each season next expansion to only have 4 keys with a chance of being good. Anyways more seriously I think my least favorite are SD and ToP, while my favorite is probably PF. Mists, NW, DoS, and HoA are all upper middle tier as well. SD is such a pain because even if you have a consistent group that can do 25s and 26s you get to SD and if they aren't willing to talk and plan out defensives and offensives before the key 90% of the time its a shit show. I also feel like HoA is way to highly rated, I think I have been doing basically the same route in there the last two or maybe more seasons. Sure you could pull differently, but doesn't anyone really do more than change one pack in for one other every once in a blue moon… no.
Here is my comment to become a commentator. Cheers.
Disagree with the "players are looking to do m+ for the aoe and trash". I don't like raiding because you have to schedule with dozens of other people and you have to wipe on the same shit over and over. M+ is the only other high-end pve content and hope to get some good single-target variations within it.
S. Halls
A. Mists, ToP,
B. Sangy, DoS, NW
D. Spires, PF
I like 5-boss dungeons, but spires checkpoints, taxis, and last 3 angels suck.
King's Rest drops Getti'ikku, making it mandatory for any 2h user. Was a sad expansion to pvp.
From a healer's perspective:
S: Mists, Gambit
A: HoA, SD
B: Spires, ToP, NW
C: PF
D: Streets, DoS
As much as I like HOA, you can't have 8 dungeons in 1 expansion that are all like HOA. Because it get's fncking annoying after a while.
Also, Plaguefall should be D tier. It's a trash dungeon. Even if you get it at a <+10 key, no one will run it, because it's too troublesome.
Tettles pushing halls into s tier cause it's the only dungeon boomies get invited to
Helping the algorithm
Tettles, please stop telling me a dungeon’s timer being “free” is in any way a positive to its design. If dos had a 52 minute timer that would probably make it even worse, not better. If it was a fair or well tuned timer we were walking about here, sure. But free ?
All go in D tier. Sanguine in S tier.
Sanguine depths with Inspiring/necrotic.. The gauntlet is just The Worst design blizzard ever made.