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World of Warcraft Shadowlands patch 9.2 Spoilers!
It has been revealed that the world soul of Argus is what disabled the arbiter and set the events of the expasnion in motion. It kinfd of also mean… that the Jailer Zovaal sort of maybe planned literally everything that has happened in WoW lore since Warcraft 3 – from Sargeras creating the Burning Legion to the creation of the Lich King to to us being awesome at raiding in Legion. People don’t like it, and fair enough really. But Taliesin explains why tho think of the Jailer as an IQ5000 evil genius playing 7D chess with the fate of Azeroth and the cosmos is to fundamentally misunderstand the character and the story
► Taliesin & Evitel TV : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3a_yC2I8kqBoLIdz5IoILQ
Check out Flying Buttress who made the Jailer’s Plan montage for us:
https://www.youtube.com/c/FlyingButtress
Let Me Tell You Just How Smart The Jailer Is Reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/rhhclw/let_me_tell_you_just_how_smart_the_jailer_is/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
► Taliesin & Evitel Website: https://www.TaliesinAndEvitel.com
► Taliesin & Evitel Twitter: https://twitter.com/TaliesinEvitel
► Taliesin & Evitel Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/TaliesinandEvitel
► Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/taliesinandevitel
► Taliesin & Evitel TV : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3a_yC2I8kqBoLIdz5IoILQ
► T&E Merchandise: https://taliesin-evitel.creator-spring.com/
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Hi, reddit post guy here.
Tali hit the nail on the head with the intention of the post, was a shitpost made after watching Nobbel play the PTR.
I thought it was just absurd the idea he was behind everything and thought about all that had to happen in order for shadowlands to occur. I agree that his whole story is that of someone with nothing but time and that it wasn't a master plan crafted over two beers and a cold pizza. That's where the disappointment comes from and where I think many people can agree, the jailer is just boring.
Whenever they talk about the jailer they describe him as deceptively cunning and it feels disconnecting to say that and never see it. Those descriptions work for someone like Denathrius, a wonderful character I wish we saw more of. If they had done another angle, that of the Jailer being an unstoppable force, something that cannot be killed and putting into mega hell being only a bandaid solution, that would have been much better imo.
If the Jailer was written as this inevitable machine then I think players would have resonated more with him. They market him as this big bad that has seen everything we have ever done on Azeroth and make his goal clear and single minded to kill everyone it becomes far more appealing. I think it would have been badass if the Jailer was given the treatment Arthas had in the Halls of Reflection, a relentless power that is just coming for you and there is nothing you can do. Make Sylvanas scared of him as to have her become an ally, make him say less and have him speak through his servants so he is just an avatar of domination, bigger nipples.
Thats just my personal opinion of the matter. I did really enjoy the video, never thought my shitpost would make it this far lmao. After stepping back from WoW and the story for a bit I've realized that I disliked the story for the wrong reasons, what I really had trouble with was the missed opportunities. Not about the writing staff or anything like that, its not cringe to be passionate, that was a poor take on my part in the past.
Big ups all,
Peace.
The Jailers super power is that he there's a staff of writers at Blizz that are really shit at their jobs.
This was an incredibly good video taliesin. Well done.
Soo… are we going to talk about how Tali is the only one with an 5000 IQ then? Or better, how many times he had to wait for the perfect Reddit post?
This looks a lot like copium. Blizzard has never written good stories, don't give them this much credit.
just accept it. WoW is whacked now 😅
… and I programmed you to believe that!
Whoever argues (most often baselessly) that there is an invisibly deep and coherent structure in Blizzard's storylines, is either regrettably naive or disgustingly apologetic.
Of course everyone is wrong and the Blizzard writers and shills that prop them up are right. Dude, you are selling your future down the river by always spinning the crap at that company. You are more than that.
Sure, with an infinite amount of time anything is conceptually possible. However, we should temper our expectations to what we know of the facts. Blizzard never revealed the big bad, because to do so would prove failure. There are plenty of other IPs that use this formula, keeping it vague means they don't have to worry about writing themselves into a corner. WOW is just sticking villain x in slot y because evil, that is the Shadowlands.
im very happy that Tali and Evi have managed to come up with a workable fix to the events that blizz have put forth, but this is all pretty much fan speculation and inference. the whole point of good writing is to make the story clear, not to have the person experiencing the story write half of it for them. do while they fixed the story here, it doesnt mean that blizz didnt intend for the jailor to have only taken a single plan route that required a 5000iq 5d chess play.
I think the point of the reddit post was to exagerate for effect what happened:
Blizzard shoe horned a shit villain into being the big bad of the setting.
Again.
When are we getting more T&E Talks though 😉
Also Tallesin story of how the 'correct manner it happened' sounds just as convuluted or ass pulled, just without being the Jailer's master plan. The issue with the story is there, front and center.
I don't like it
WOW what happend?! Actiblizz didn't pay you last month to shut your brain and you talking sense now ?! U see tali actiblizz money is bad for you!
Tali, the only problem with the "scattergun" idea is that it assumes that no one is paying any attention at all to the failures he has faced. All it would take would be one screwup showing up on the radar of the other Eternals for them to realize "Nipples is up to something, we need to figure out how" for them to discover the Dreadlords, Denny's betrayal, etc… and it all comes crashing down.
What don't people understand about the concept of a "gambit"? This wasn't the Jailers Plan A this entire time. What is happening in the game atm is the Jailers Plan B. Plan A was for Argus to be born, and to go on ending all life. Now I'm not saying that this plotline is particularly good, or that the Jailer is a good villain. I'm not, they absolutely wasted the Jailer and Shadowlands in terms of potential. However, what is happening in the story right now IS the "Plan B". That is what Blizzard intended to tell here. Argus' torture, birth, and life would give Zoval his most extreme minion in our reality, that would have enough death magic and power to completely destroy existence in the name of Zoval. Just by chance, we stopped that from happening, but Argus was designed to be a gambit. If he were to fall, the titan soul was so saturated with death magic that he would fall into the Shadowlands and disable it. The gambit. The plan B. Either one outcome or the other was inevitable, but Zoval did not predict any events. He simply had a contingency plan for if his initial plan went sideways, which it did.
Are we sure Arthas didn't keep Bolvar alive atop the frozen throne to eventually be struck down and have Bolvar take the crown hoping he would resist the jailer? Does this question that I have even matter? lol
In moments like this i really hope the blizzard writing staff watch Tali’s videos. this… this could actually work. 😂
Yep – guessed correctly. A shill for Blizzard's crappy writing.
Edit: I suppose I should say why – only fair. When planning a coup d'etat, you get one chance and if you're found out half way through, you don't get another. You don't get to flip coins for 9 hours and try again. So, yeah, shilling for Blizzard's crappy writing by attempting to explain it – we expect nothing less from you at this point, so whatever. Good try though.
I feel you are giving WoW writers too much credit. Solution: WoW writers keep doing their thing but for an improvement, before the story is released, they give it to Talie to explain to them what their story actually means. Everyone is happy! =)
People are angry (and wrong) 🤡🤡🤡
Lets not talk about the Jailers upper body strength, lets talk about the strength in your arms to be able to twist this mess of a plot and villain around so much, that you manage come up with a silver lining for it. Now THATS impressive.
Was not expecting Emet Selch to show up in this…dude pops up everywhere
It's cute that they tried ot make a Madara-like villain (Naruto) but had no idea what Madara meant the entirety of the series and just made another Kaguya that noone likes…
its written later retroactively saying they were part of it all. srsly its a stereotype of bad writing.
Okay, what's the name of this banger song
Son of a bitch… I'm in
Can we just get Wrath Classic finally?.
The way I see it. Blizzard is good at coming up with worlds and their lore, but really, really bad at storytelling and actually explaining the same world in a way that makes sense. You see this with Fanfiction all the time. There are some authors that come up with some solid GOLD ideas, but just can't do the execution because of their lack of experience or, in a lot of cases, lack of talent in doing so.
This might be the best video you've ever produced. With your permission, I might use it to help my students understand probability and planning.
I think it would be better if Zovaal was this primordial force representing 'the death of all things' instead of a pointy eared,big nippled,deep voiced bald dude. And instead of him being one of the eternals, the first ones had to 'force' this unstoppable primordial force inside a construct (the body we see it in now) because they couldn't possibly get rid of it,and lock him inside one of the most empty places in all existence (Torghast) so that they could create 'immortal' beings like eternals as caretakers after they are gone because there was no 'the death of all things' coming for them. I think something like this would be a better starting point than just saying "hey you know how things happened 10 years ago when you killed this boss? yeah it was this guy all along."
– Hey, Daddy D, wanna help me get out of that super hell?
– You son of a bitch! I'm in! (c)
I thought the wow team said that the titans went to their own version of a shadowlands..so why is Argus' soul blumitting towards
the Arbiter in the first place?
Beautiful theory, expect it worked out to you having to tell it , instead of the Blizz writers showing it.
The way it’s written, it could still be 5000d chess we just weren’t smart enough to work out.
This is like the James Bond movie where it is revealed Philip Seymour Hoffman has been pulling the strings in Bond’s life for years and years… and then Bond kills him 10 minutes later and runs away.
I was screaming 'the watchmaker fallacy' at my screen for about 5 minutes before Taliesin began his take on the post 😅
At this point they should just have Tally write the next expansion, maybe we might be happy with the lore of an expansion for the first time in 10 years
This, this is what I've been trying to explain to my Clanmates. He is a shit character, but the revelation that certain events from past expansions helped the Jailer doesn't mean he planned them. He just sat around in superhell, monitoring everything going on trough his spies and any time he saw something happen that he could turn to his benefit he lept at it. Most great army leaders weren't great because they could predict the enemies every single move, but because they could adapt very quickly to constantly changing situations. That is all Zoval did, adapted to things happening around him, to make as much of it beneficial to himself as possible, and the death of Argus just happened to be his lucky break. Once the Arbiter went down is when he actually started laying down specific plans. Like burning down Teldrassil and starting a war to get as much soul fule as possible.
The thing is, I like your explanation but:
A) The fact that it is needed is kinda bad writing on Blizzard's side
And
B) I am not yet convinced that they would think the reddit post version would be the go to way.
Lately the writing was a bit boring and also thrown over a few times because of external events and I think that is what many people don't like about it, the conjunction withe the state of the game
This is the best video you have done in a long time, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Very entertaining, well done! I also love this take on the jailer, actually makes a lot of sense in this context. Brilliant vid.
I get your point, but it only changes jailer from being incredibly smart and cunning, into being incredinly lucky with everything turing right for him to escape.
What is the proof/lore info about "thousand of tries" he took to escape before anything worked out for him ? Because if he didnt really pull the thousands of threads that makes him terribly stupid either way, hes either smart or lucky and both wont work.
Fair enough points. I stopped caring about the story in this game like a decade ago, or close to it, plus the fact that even to this day Blizzard just doesn't put enough story into their game for what I'd personally like. After playing some other MMOs, it's kind of embarrassing that WoW doesn't have more story. It's not as if they don't have the money for more cutscenes, or just voice acting in general. Anyway, good video, and as you say, the Jailer still absolutely sucks as a main antagonist.
Good video, never thought about it like this, well done.