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When was the exact moment that the Lore in World of Warcraft started going bad? WoW Legion? Warlords of Draenor? Maybe Shadowlands?
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You think WoW's lore is bad now? Wait 'till you see what happened with Warhammer 40k.
Check this out: The Emperor is called Neoth, and the Primarchs weren't made in a lab, but with his wife. And it turns out, it wasn't Chaos that scattered the Primarchs, but wifey XD
Gl on your upcoming move irl man. Have always enjoyed your vids. Keep up the good work.
With dislike number remove , its feel that like in every video become meaningless
The lore broke for a simple reason.
Warcraft 3's story was phenomenal cause the Strategy platform allowed the writing of complex stories with beginnings and most importantly Ends.
Wow will always fail in the lore department cause when we must always have someone more powerful in each expansion to grind xp and loot try will write themselves to a corner.
Almost all of Warcraft 3 characters are being ridiculed cause they don't know what to do with them .
It does not surprise me at all that you get on Reddit daily. Much love, keep up the great content
Honestly, WoW Lore was always kinda strange.
I dont even remeber if Vanilla had a Story or if it was just us doing some Questlines and Raids.
Burning Crusade I remember had a Story going on, even though I belive most of that was retconned when they decided to make Illidan a good guy again.
WotLK was the Conclusion of WC3 TFT.
And after that; I feel like every expansion had its own Story that had nothing to do with Expansions that came before or after. Its always kind "World ending thread that much bigger than the last world ending thread appears, we do some Quests, someone else deals with the Thread in the end. Repeat next expansion.
I mean, seriously thinking back, If I am not mistaken the last time our Character was actually the one to kill the BBEG was WotLK. After that it was always we do the final raid, and then the BBEG is killed by an NPC in a Cinematic.
Worst of that was in Legion where we didnt even get to fight Sargeras, but some random stone Golem which I, to this day, dont know the purpose of… I actually belive our Character never even met Sargeras…
I wonder if it doesn't make sense, because they cut the endings.
8:25
"They've gone from a Series to Episodes"
Sorry not sorry, but this is wrong. They've always been episodic, and their storytelling was always concluded within the respective relase with a bunch of open ends that they later could use as "foreshadowing" for expansions anywhere down the line. The matter of the fact is: Their stories have always been flashy Consoomer attention grabs. The difference from then to now is that we've seen behind the veil too many times with how they handle their own IP: They establish a character, with all their flaws and features, and let the community start speculating and become involved, only to then pull the rug from under them in order to be able to say: "Isn't this twist unexpected? We surprised you!" And then their constant asspull "additions" that their apologists say isn't a "retcon" due to it not actively changing the context of their established events. Guess what? You're getting hung up on a technicality, because in spirit and audience perception, it was a complete rewriting of events. They try to brush us off with sudden claims of unreliable narration when the truth has always been that WoW suffered from over-exposition, giving us perfectly objective truths about the events in their world. They just always change their minds whenever it suits them, because they are toddlers in a toy store and they play with something for 20 minutes and then drop it for the next big thing. The only reason, *the only reason*, anybody criticises WoW now and thinks the Old Days were better, is because the rest of the game and the company is so shit that it doesn't distract from the lore, anymore. I've been disgusted with TBC lore coming from Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3, and in hindsight, not even the RTS games provided any reasonable or solid continuation. Ironically, it was exactly the removed perspective of RTS games, with their disjointed missions, that provided the best narrative platform, because they could just reuse assets with colour and size swaps and we'd just accept it as figurines on a game board and it'd throw us right into the action. With Warcraft, we're exposed to hours upon hours of hackneyed voice performances and fragile attempts of a coherent, engaging story that ultimately contradict what we're seeing in the flashy cinematics and cutscenes.
Legion should ve been 2 expantions ( one defending and one invading )
BFA should ve been 2 expantions ( one on a proper faction conflict and one with a full old god dominated world )
Edit : imo the order should ve been Legion invanding > We Invading the Legion World > While we were invading the Old Gods and their allies seized the World via Emerald Nightmare and other stuff > Zorvan and his Bitch Queen exploit doubt and other weak points during all these past expantion to start a world war and collect souls > Shadow fucking lands with Zorvan being hinted for 2 or 3 past expansions
I unsubbed today for good after seeing the 9.2 announced Zereth Mortis Cypher system. Blizz thinks that trying to force everyone into being part of the hard core content crowd is the key to success despite it failing every single time it has been tried.
Not everyone wants to raid, M+, or PVP. Ion doesn't believe in casual play, and between him and Danhauser ruining the story, I'm just freaking done.
Games are meant to be played for fun, and Ion thinks it's meant to be a second job. Look ate what happened with WildStar; they designed around the hard core crowd and the game died. WoW is going to be dead in the next couple of years or less if Blizz doesn't replace Ion and Danhauser.
Replacing them would be the only way I'll ever consider returning, but until that happens I'm out.
Here's hoping the Warcraft IP gets bought by another company like Microsoft who will actually take the time to fix the game.
Lore in Legion broke because they were trying to keep from telling the whole story at any point and some plot lines vanished with no real conclusion. Like there was very real faction disputes built because of legion that were resolved in class order hall arcs but you don't really see those outside the specific classes involved. Zones lack a verified canon order and some groups on the isles just don't make any sense (Gilneans who don't seem to be worgen except for a weird grandma… moonguard…. a few "not druid" druids… nightborne AND moongaurd in the same area)… WTH happened with that Lantern and what was the deal with the pvp towers.
For me, the lore started to break when they introduced Bloodknights (Blood Elf Paladins) in the Burning Crusade.
I don’t believe that BC had any kind of tie in or built up to LK outside of a pre patch event.
Of course Legion’s stories were abandoned. You said it before: Danuser didn’t want to play with Metzen’s toys.
Also, that “Tyrande” meme performance quality was far superior to the actual one in game.
For me it was the way creative fucking disgraced The Emerald Dream / Nightmare…
The first ones ruined the lore I think as they are introduced to early and take the story away from Zovaal. Zereth mortis should not exist. The story is not clear anymore and they think they can just drag the story along with massive time gaps, no explanations and expect us to care. Legion was my fav expansion because we got to see and play the stuff we have heard about, it did have its issues though.
The problem is systems are the main characters in the story now.
It's all exposition to explain why you have to jump through hoops for your gear.
Everything seemed rushed lore wise.
let's see.
everything in cataclysm was mishandled, though not a disaster. they couldn't handle a storyline with the aspects that was interesting at all.
wod fucked things up significantly. it should have been a self contained story, and all the characters from that alternate reality should have stayed in that reality (i remember chris metzen promised that actually). they should have made cordana more important through wod and going into legion.
now LEGION is to me the nail in the coffin for the lore (everything after that is dogshit). gul'dan was awesome in draenor, but he should have stayed there. instead of him, it should have been archimonde in nighthold since he is kind of the arch enemy of the night elves. and the worst insult is the reveal of the legion hunting down the titan spirits in order to be unstoppable. if they only needed the spirit of eonar to achieve this, why the fuck didn't they concentrate everything into doing it? why the fuck did they try to invade the only known world to have repelled them not once, but twice before?
Name a time WoW didn't add systems, overhaul them, or remove them all together on a new patch. WoW was made for the player to get addicted to these things because they come and go so much and story itself is just so fragmented as well as full of plot holes and just hanging story arks that sit there in limbo. It really is a mess right now, wish they pull their head out of where ever it is and make a good game
ive heard for years how deep and awesome WoW lore is, as a wc3 player i never understood what the fuck they were saying
to me WoW has been retconning itself since moment one, and they defintely have this weird thing where the heroes defeat a super being next expansion its time to kill a few mobs to protect some fucking farmer. this is not inherently bad game design, but these small tweaks make the plot feel weird when they call you champion everywhere you go, but you are doin worthless shit for garbage rewards…. also just as another complaint from a wc3 fan, dear god have they ruined the horde for me -_-
spot on, WoW expansion story writing went from feeling like a series to self-contained episodes
Other then cut content ( which I think they should have worked on in lieu of bfa) the only part of legions story that bothered me was the beginning.
1st Varian and Sylvanas almost act like they are courting ( ok cool , interesting but where in the #$ did that come from ? )
2 it feels to me like the faction conflict was more forced then organic then aby other xpac. The Horde are over run and either sacrifice everyone for a lost cause or retreat. Yet the alliance acts like we're thr situation reversed they wouldn't have done the same thing . The whole thing felt like it was done " for meh faction conflict "
The lantern was called a soulcage… could it have been Sylvanas' soul?
I'm the dislike buttom.
Personally I haven't been happy since WOTLK.
To me I didn't like the world revamp in CATA, the way they handled deathwing was meh…
PvP and class balance was great in MOP but the story felt phones in since they made the entire expansion around a Warcraft 3 April fool's joke.
We all remember WOD.
Legion was hype but the hype was murdered by the systems.
BFA was BFA.
SL is SL.
At this point I don't care how good 10.0 is, I don't think I'll ever come back. This is just my opinion but I'm having way more fun in FF14 & GW2 then I've had in wow for over 10 years. I'd sooner subject myself to playing Fiesta online then play 10.0…
Legion was a fanservice expansion to regain players who left in WoD before there was even a chance for a first patch. Why do you think there was a year of nothing before Legion dropped? Because they built it from scratch. Why was a character who'd been dead for 4 expansions revived to be the poster boy? Because he was a fan favorite. Legion was a soft reboot of Burning Crusade in order to get players back to the game. Ever wonder why most of the OG creative team quit or retired during Legion? They went out on top and never looked back. I quit playing in Legion because I saw it for what it was and especially after Metzen retired. It foreshadowed where WoW is now because those left had no clue how to build the story. I believe WoD was their way to get to WoW2 within two expansions, but the majority of the players rejected it. Sorry to say it, but the players are a huge reason why WoW is in its current state.
I swear that Blizzard needs to hire Acolonn to fix their shitty storytelling.
The reality is that WoW has never cared about its own story. They started screwing things up with the story with Eranikus in vanilla WoW. Or the Ashbringer going into Outland.
Reality is at some point Blizzard decided that the only plot that matters is what they're throwing into your face with the current patch.
What I dislike about Legion is the fact that it was too early. If they didn’t fuck the lore up by speeding through many rich story arcs, Sargeras should still be out there and the Burning Legion is still not our problem. They were in such a hurry to go ultra cosmic, they wasted the Burning fucking Legion. Sargeras is the Satan of the Warcraft mythos. Imagine your mythology defeating its Satan! What made Starcraft's story and storytelling work is the fact that the moment they went cosmic, ending the story was what they had in mind! You know what's fresh and ripe for a "reset" after ending its main story? Starcraft. If they do that, Raynor, Kerrigan, Zeratul are now figures of legend. And Valerian, Artanis, etc. are your historical present. But I guess them greedyfucks over at Blizzard believe RTS is dead, so yeah. Forget about it. It won't happen. Now WoW is in a position of needing a reset but no. A reset won't cut it. I think at this rate, WoW's story is irredeemable. Fucking Steve Danuser!!!
I think the WOD cinematic gave us the strongest clue that the wheels were coming off…. the scene when the iron star came off its hold….. since that expansion the game went super downhill.
the emerald nightmare should have been a zone with a raid inside it
Every video i get more anxious about when this guy is going to explode (litterly explode)