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The problem is a couple years ago everyone was bitching that they simplified the game too much and “catered to new players” instead of their core group that have played forever, I agree with a lot of this but I think in order to get the point across people need to only bitch about serious stuff that needs changed not stuff that just annoys them because if I’m blizzard and no matter what I do it’s never right then why do it to begin with?
The thing about lowering the amount of buttons that are required and simplifying rotations is that it also unlocks other classes for people to play. I see things with Shammys all the time and go, "man that looks fun I should level a shaman." then I remember in legion when I wanted to play more than just my mage and try to 20 key with a melee class too. So I finished leveling my DK and the amount of time that I spent learning to min max well enough to hit a 20 key and I just lose all motivation to learn the rotations and set up the best key binds/macros for anything new.
In league I absolutely have a main but if at anytime that gets boring to me, I have 20 characters in various roles that I can play at a high enough level to be competitive in any ranked game and it hardly gets stale. In wow not only does 1 class have 5-10x the amount of mechanics 1 league champ has but in order to min max my frost mage for M+ now, I have to spec into different talents and change playstyle mechanics pre pull based on if im cleaving or single target. It makes me miss the days where you had to go to your class trainer and pay to respec tbh.
Its so much easier to do shit like this when youre a teenager or early 20's but being 30 with a career, sometimes I just want to be able to come home and unwind and honestly I sit at my desk and think about progression in WoW and what I need to do and just go, "nah I dont have the energy for that today."
This is exactly right. The addons in particular just absolutely kills it for me. Every expansion I try to come back: this time will be different! Then when I'm done with all the levelling and gearing and I actually start queuing for the pvp arenas I am hit with how hopelessly rough the learning curve is. Even with solo shuffle it's super rough. I guess if queue times were super fast it might help a bit, but just like last time, and the time before, I gave up after a couple of months. Makes me sad cuz I really like the game.
I like world of Warcraft but I have to honest I only hunt for mounts now when I actually tried to raid and get into pvp i have been harassed for not having knowledge that players who have been playing for years have been kicked out of groups so I gave up I enjoy hunting mounts now
Agree with everything ..
We get there, because it takes few days to set Weak Aura. Yeah, after it setted, game looks completly different, but the effort. Addons are sucks.
I was thinking lately about healer problem, it's the same in mythic+, but blizzard made healing hard, which I like (since I was healer since classic times).
Rotation also quite hard for some spec's while absurdly easy for some, which made few my friends play frost mages, because they just cba to put a lot of time and effort to become fire mage in mythic+.
As for the healer problem in shuffles, I think they can try implement self healing increase, now it's like 3% for all classes or smth like that, make it 30% or something and than put healer+2dps vs other healer+2dps, but put 3 dps or 2dps+tank vs another players but with 30% or even more self healing, can even add button like lay on hands for groups where healers are not represented.
P.S. Thank you very much for your channel and your work to improve the game. The main problem for me – addons. Back in the days, my idol was Hydra priest, who played without a single addon, even not used gladius. But now times changed ofc he is 30 y.o., kids etc. But I played 2350 2vs2 in Wotlk vs R1 EU players without a single addon and it was doable, hard but doable.
I wann to play retail because of the graphics and Effects but it is way to difficult and overwhelming to me
Blizzard had the chance to solidify wow pvp / arena as an actual esport or a game in like which you said, you can just log in and que.
They had this thing called tournament servers, and tbh to this day I still want it and dont know why we never got it.
Just picture servers where you just make a toon, its insta max level. You have access to every single piece of gear,enchant,gem, w.e. You customise your shit and just que games. Would also be cool if they just banned raid gear and maybe took away racials for these servers.
Just pure pvp. No bullshit raid trinkets for those people who dont raid getting gatekeeped, no leveling and grinding and doing prerequisite shit.
I think if they did this immediately after wotlk while there were still millions of players and there was an actual hype around pvp, the community would be a lot bigger in pvp right now, if anything it would be thriving.
Like you said, people nowadays want to log in and que.
At this point all of my friends have stopped for a few years now, I played through the first patch of dragonflight, got 2100 for the cosmetics in solo shuffle then stopped playing because theres no way im LFGing Arenas.
@venruki do you think there could be a system designed for pvp where Blizzard removes the gear grind completely? I think there could be a system where pvpers only buy trinkets because in the end it is player vs player. There are too many players that have access to guilds for mythic gear or carries in keys. Then there are some that do the pve grind to get certain items. Why not set each class as baseline with the only difference being trinkets? Then we would truly have player vs player not gear vs gear. When it comes down to the top % the only thing that seperates them is their playing. The problem with the system is some that could be just as good dont get the chance due to not having access to farm some of the gear. They also need to do something better when it comes to pairing new players with exp players in pvp. There is a ton to learn when it comes to pvp and they need to shrink that shit down a little bit. There is no pvp like wow, there is no game like wow and it is up to wow to change these things for new players or this game will be just the same old group of players playing the game.
If you are looking to play a pvp game, don't play WoW. WoW is very accessible for PVE (you learn as you progress and there is less fomo for 90% of the players). WoW pvp started out as a side thing to do for fun while you play the main game, which is Pve, and it should be treated as such. If you want pvp, play a game that is made for that; e.g. CS, Fortnite, LoL, Dota, etc.
Crazy that in MoP more people PvP'd than raised. The sheer numbers of people who'd queued into BGs was nuts.
I can get on board with the concept of solo shuffle except for the shuffle. Once players decide whether you suk or not, they all gang up on you whether they're on your team or not. To solo shuffle is nerve wracking enough without the verbal abuse.
9:45 Sir, we fury warriors been having the exactly same rotation since legion with only 6-8 buttons on 150apm.
-Isn’t it the purpose of Maccros to make your gameplay easier?
-I didn’t know about this. I do think it’s going too far and just make the game boring to use these maccros
-But they created themselves the fonction to do this and they are going to Ban you if you use it?!
-It’s like giving the option to wallhack in call of duty then Ban people that use it
-Customization is Fun, Automations is boring
Glad to see someone with a platform is discussing this, add ons reading all my moves in arena is my pet peeve, it’s like reading someone’s cards, you’re building plays around people when they don’t have the same power. The common argument is it’s part of the engine yada yada yada, they could do it too.
In my mind if the game was designed to be played like that it’d be a native feature, what’s on my screen is my business the fun for me is guessing what happens next not reading my opponents moves from my Ui and playing accordingly.
Rolled a Druid for the first time hit 70, 30 moves?! 3 toolbars worth, key bindings assigned everywhere, even with a Naga I don’t what to do with them all.
It does feel elitest plenty of positive things but as soon as you go into competitive PvP the exploits show, 700k health dps boosting some 400k health dps, crazy ass bots too.
Honesty after a night of 3v3 I just get like uninstalling it, spent my evening researching and realised how ridiculous it is that I’m having to do this.
He mentions it briefly, but this should be further emphasized: figuring out what abilities other people are using in arena is absolutely overwhelming for new players. Not only is there literally hundreds of abilities one has to learn and keep track of, readability is awful. Most of the time they'll just see the other player glow a ton and then they die. Even figuring out what exactly killed you and why requires you to stop playing and read up on it, unless you're getting coached. I guess you can also watch PvP-ers play on Twitch or Youtube, but this is basically video game homework.
So WoW is demanding dozens or potentially hundreds of hours of just grinding and doing video game homework until you have an even basic idea of what each class is capable of. Other games generally have a much more intuitive learning process and reading people's abilities is much easier. Also, the rest of the game is nothing like arena, so the skills and knowledge you gain from doing dungeons and leveling translate poorly. The occasional WPVP encounter with a person who also does not know what they're doing will also not prepare you.
Now, you might personally like all of this. You might like the big entry barrier. You might like banging your head against the wall until you finally break through. You might like doing video game homework and whatnot. It can be incredibly rewarding when your efforts starts paying off. However, no one should be surprised that most people simply don't want to do this. I don't know what the solution is. The game certainly shouldn't be overly simplified. The problem is obvious though. Maybe the game itself should help new players what is actually going on with better UI and readability. As is, I'm not surprised very few people get into arena.
I have played WoW since the original Zul Gurub was released and during my 1500 days of played 99% of it is one class, Druid.
I was literally laughing my ass off at arcane mage rotation and especially keybindings part, I used to have around 40 keybinds between TBC and Mop. After that it's still alots even after merges and deletes and nerfs and whatnot. 😂
I'm not young but i'm new, and it's hard. I dont understand half of the world of tutorials, i wan't to try pvp, but i don't know how, i dont have friends who play WoW, i use hikili add-on otherwise and it is the only thing that helps me to understand the connection between abilities and just have some damage. I don't even try to raid (havn't done it once) because i don't want to ruin somebodies game. I'm willing to learm, if it wouldn't take all of my free time, but i don't even know where to start. So that's my perspective xD
Honestly I don't think WoW is hard for new players. I started WoW this expansion, and by 10.1 I'm a CE player. I think its different for PvP, and honestly I don't like PvP for this game (coming from an ex LOL addict), and I think PvE content is way more accessible to climb to the top but also understand classes/abilities BEFORE throwing yourself at PvP. Yes Arcane is difficult in PvE content, but your showing the hardest class in the game rotationally that is almost exclusive for the top Arcane players. You could say the same for League, even if it has 4 main buttons. Bard is regarded as one of the hardest champions in the game to play correctly and at high level and has essentially no skill cap, and it only has 4 simple buttons. I think the talent trees in this game are awesome, provide context to what your abilities can and cant do, and honestly just having 2 builds from WoWhead for AOE and ST carries you through the game until you can understand it at higher level. This game isn't college. It's a game. And I think they did great for new players this expansion and I'm really happy for where the game is at in 10.2, excited for 10.3.
And, being completely honest, hearing all that makes me think "Oh, pvp is too involved for me..".
If the queue times weren't 34 minutes I imagine this video would have a different tone. Blizzard can't stop taking L's.
Youre right Ven. We need a new MMORPG that doesnt have levels. Just have a world where people can do quests at their own pace, a story, then have some dungeons and raids that people can just hop into asap, and of course have PVP which IMO shouldnt have any gear factors.
This is why for PVE I much prefer FFXIV. Rotations are pretty static and the only thing that changes is openers on some fights to align cds with phases better. This allows for the actual fight mechanics to be way more interesting and fun to figure out. E12S savage has more mechanics in 3 mins than all of a Mythic raid up to the last boss. It blows my mind how much in WoW is just passive-timer nonsense.
I understand what you're saying but then again isn't that your fault? Like nobody told you to get an addon to play PVP, competitive Arena used to be no addons, it's the playerbase who demands addons because without them they play like poop. It's not wow's fault, its the playerbase fault for not problem solving but want addons to problem solve for them. As someone who also plays Overwatch, I don't have addons to tell me who on the enemy team used what skill, whats on cooldown and who's got their Ult's ready.. I just have to keep that in my mind. At it's core WoW is not difficult, it's just your view on PVP and Addons being mandatory that makes it difficult for new players and thats on you…
I wanted to come back but the amount of abilities is too much for me. None of my old experience carries over.
Started playing just over 1 day played and it’s very hard to understand what’s going on or what’s what there so main different things to do just the different currencies is insane
The number one issue is Activision, hopefully Microsoft acquisition fixes all games including WoW, CoD, etc. Players should have moved on to newer MMOs for PvP such as Guild Wars 1 and 2. I really enjoyed Guild Wars PvP.
As a software developer I can see why WoW became such a mess. MMO player bases are always resistant to change as they are addicted and heavily invested into that version of the game. Even if WoW 2, WoW 3 had been released the original player base would have never switched.
Throwing 25 skills at a new player when they haven’t even hit level 20 is a big issue in my opinion as well. Blizzard just overwhelms new players to the point of quitting. It’s weird how classic is more new players friendly than retail is now.
Ban all addons problem solved
And you know whats EVEN WORSE. If you want to play and you want to stick it out, you ask for help. And no one will help you. No one will hold your hand. And you need someone to hold your hand.
I was thinking about getting into this game. But your explanation makes it sound like, maybe not a good idea. I just want to be an Orc and start pillaging with a team 😅
Even if you compare two mmo's like FF and WoW, one is far more user friendly than the other if you don't like the FF comparison do GW2. I have played WoW since Wotlk so not as long as some people but for new people or friends, they never want to get into the game because if you want to push keys or pvp or do practically anything in the game you need addons. While in GW2 or FF you can actually see mechanics and not have a ton of clutter on the screen. I love Wow, but man after playing other mmo's that did not need addons it was so nice. I just started pve last xpac and physically not being able to do mythics or raids because I did not have addons was so annoying.
I know people who are 18 years gold + are like 70 these days , but you don't need those addons to get to 1600 , just play a good tier class and go inside the bgs or open world for a bit , gear up or buy gear with vers stats and go play the game , you dont need no addons , you need nothing , i was legit playing in sl and got 1800 with pve gear on a 10% vers stats with my pve friend , we had normal raid gear that point and guess what , on top of that i legit was a fuking clicker man , i clicked spells for 3 expacs , i only had dps meter and dbm cause i had to download them for mythic plus and raids , the people who say the game is too complicated are old people , i don't wanna be mean but these days people wish that things are headed to them without doing no efforts , this expac i went on a +15 dawn of the infinte and one of a higher raider io guys with me said at the second boss that its his f time , and it happened for more than 6 times in even now its still happening , if you want to play a game without trying and get rewarded for not doing anything , you realy need to step out and go play simple games that target zoomer audiences that just wanna lay in bed and close their eyes and get loot by doing so , the game is not the problem , the player is the problem , wow will not adapt to that and never will , exepct for making quality of life changes like account bound stuff , but ugotta earn those first to get them , and for pve is the same , before you in a dungeon , you go to a 4 min guide and learn mechanics or stop pulling shit instead of the tank doing so , its so god damn simple , and if u get kicked cause you messed up , go do quests to level up or gear up and life goes on , people are too focused on "omg he kicked me what a shit game im gonna go cry in comments about how i get sexualy harassed" its just weird man.
Just decided to quit wow and im searching around videos if anyone feels the same