Anyone of you remember MOP raiding ! there wasn't anything wrong with it , just go back to 2 difficulties, flex and HC and problem of the mythic raid solved !! 🙂
Allow flex in Mythic but ban any clear not full 20 man from getting World first achievements and titles and leaderboard placement. That preserves the competative environment for anyone valuing it while letting more players have a stab at a "near Mythic" level difficulty.
I last raided in Retail during BfA and have been playing Classic recently. My take is that tiered Raid difficulty is a mistake. Have one Raid difficulty. Make it challenging, but make sure that your average guild putting in effort can progress it, that's the sweet spot. Do not waste a single thought on ultrasweat Mythic raiders. As Asmon likes to say, they are 0.1% of the community. The only difficulty tier I approve of is oldschool Heroic dungeons that keep leveling dungeons relevant at level cap.
Mythic raid needs rewards equal to its difficulty… not like I can get BiS gear from M+ and then why would I struggle in Mythic raid ??? 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Edit: Heroic is too easy mainly because people clearing it with 480+ gear..
There's no way anyone at Blizzard is aware of or has considered this issue. They're more interested in making mythic an impossible carrot that keeps you subbed between major patches than actually creating a game designed to be finished.
I think MoP had pretty close to the best difficulty scaling. For all the issues MoP had, it's endgame was really good at least. Bosses hit hard, and you only wiped when too many people died, not from a single mistake. They should keep the talents from DF, but the balancing should he closer to MoP and I think people would like the game more.
I think the game needs to move towards being addon-less, smooth the difficulty curve, and design clear, consistent raid mechanic markers, and understand that this process would take time, many tiers worth. FFXIV normal raids have comparable mechanics to Normal and sometimes Heroic in WoW but they have taught their playerbase over time. Mechanics from older Savage fights trickle down over time, appearing later in some form in Extreme fights and eventually Normal and dungeons. That and the logistical nightmare that is a Mythic roster is harming raid health.
– Current normal replaces LFR. No more waiting for 2 bad tanks, because their queue is shorter, but have no clue about the class/encounter. You have responsibilty. Also difficulty is something between lfr and normal. Just a chill starter raid for everyone putting in a bit of time. Not an afk / clown festival like LFR. If you can clear it with decent randoms without much knowledge its fun. People wanting more may search for a heroic guild.
– Heroic basically stays as it is, but its gear has the highest ilvl ingame.
– Mythic is purely cosmetic besides mount. Its just a challenge mode and not a tool to overgear yourself and be able to faceroll easy content to shuffle paying players.
-ofc myth plus dungeons 15 or so are on heroic raid ilvl. 20+ is challenge/cosmetic. No more easy overgearing and shuffle paying players.
There is a large push and pull between teaching players how to play and learn their class and the game and dev having some sort of player expectations. I think Blizz devs too often are dependent on the community to teach new players about their class and how to play the game. Spoiler alert, the community is shit at it. I think mythic raiding is too hard and asks too much from players. A large amount of plays have gone back to Classic because top end raiding does not ask a bonkers amount from players.
The fall of subscriptions can be directly tied to hard raids. The game shouldn’t be catered to the players whose lives are dedicated to and income is based on content about the game.
I've raided, not counting a couple pug spots at the end of vanilla, since BC. I lost interest with the first boss in castle nath. All raids in dragonflight are the same. You're not playing wow, you're dancing, the entire damn time. It doesn't feel like wow, it feels like some kind of guitar hero game tapping your movement buttons more than actually doing anything. I didn't start playing keyboard hero, I started playing wow…
I am in a similar boat of heroic is a little too easy for my group. I think the simple solution is just make mythic easier. We are already seeing mythic guilds get ruined and break up over the stress of how hard it is. Plus the gap between current heroic and mythic is so wild that I don’t think it’d hurt to just lower it a bit. That way people who are happy with hero don’t need to worry and numbers can stay up while those who want to push higher but can’t spend 12 hours a week on it can join in.
Just like 40 man raids became 25 and then 20 time to change that to 15 or even 10, Mythic raiding isn't hard cus of a challenging game its hard cus of the 20 man requirement. I've been raiding since Legion and only raided in 2 guilds one died and the other is dying cus of this stupid 20 man requirement.
Do Heroic+. Make it so it remains Flex, and there's mostly cosmetic stuff in there, maybe an intermediate level of gear between current Heroic and Mythic. Point towards a difficulty which should be achievable once you have a nearly full set of heroic gear
I wouldn't mind Flex if Blizzard could balance it without having wierd fights making it harder for smaller groups but easier for bigger groups AKA Kilrogg and Gorefiend from WOD
I think you're mis-remembering. Yes, 10N got harder but thats not what killed the raiding scene then.
The problem was while they TRIED to make them equal in difficulty, 10N/H was still easier than 25N/H due to pure logistics. Mechanics are easier when there are less people to mess them up. In Cata they also removed the iLvL difference between 10 and 25, so raid size didnt matter. This lead to 25-man guilds splitting up into 2 teams and blasting 10H for gear that was the same iLvL as 25H. Don't forget, the "World First" race was for 25H, not 10-man.
The result is 25-man guilds blasting 10H and taking all of the ranking slots that the more casual guilds pursued THEN went on to dominate 25-man rankings. Not to mention there were certain fights that just were abysmally balanced and nearly unkillable on 10H but a total cakewalk on 25H. (Omnitron Defense System anyone?)
We have a new patch cadence now, they should use it! e.g. 10.2 = Mythic raid as it is right now 10.2.5 = close hall of fame, make possible to join mythic 10, mythic lockout works the same as heroic Normal has to be the easy mode, heroic should be harder and lfr is the real challenge mode
Actually that doesn’t sound like a bad idea… Tone down Mythic, but add a ‘Prestige’ difficulty that rewards the same power as mythic, but additional cosmetics. That is an additional mode that is hard for those who want a challenge as opposed to just wanting gear.
Silly question @bellular warcraft, would the China server shut down have effected the stats of season 1 raid?
Anyone of you remember MOP raiding ! there wasn't anything wrong with it , just go back to 2 difficulties, flex and HC and problem of the mythic raid solved !! 🙂
Allow flex in Mythic but ban any clear not full 20 man from getting World first achievements and titles and leaderboard placement.
That preserves the competative environment for anyone valuing it while letting more players have a stab at a "near Mythic" level difficulty.
BRUH, ever since Mythic raiding exists the game has arguably been SHIT. Just sayn.
I last raided in Retail during BfA and have been playing Classic recently. My take is that tiered Raid difficulty is a mistake. Have one Raid difficulty. Make it challenging, but make sure that your average guild putting in effort can progress it, that's the sweet spot. Do not waste a single thought on ultrasweat Mythic raiders. As Asmon likes to say, they are 0.1% of the community. The only difficulty tier I approve of is oldschool Heroic dungeons that keep leveling dungeons relevant at level cap.
Mythic raid needs rewards equal to its difficulty… not like I can get BiS gear from M+ and then why would I struggle in Mythic raid ??? 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Edit: Heroic is too easy mainly because people clearing it with 480+ gear..
There's no way anyone at Blizzard is aware of or has considered this issue. They're more interested in making mythic an impossible carrot that keeps you subbed between major patches than actually creating a game designed to be finished.
Instead of all this convoluted difficulties just make one difficulty level and the roster level be from 10-40, whatever the group can swing
So you want 10 and 25m and 10 and 25 heroic lol
I want mythic 0 to be as hard as Cataclysm heroics
I think MoP had pretty close to the best difficulty scaling. For all the issues MoP had, it's endgame was really good at least. Bosses hit hard, and you only wiped when too many people died, not from a single mistake. They should keep the talents from DF, but the balancing should he closer to MoP and I think people would like the game more.
Make mythic with all usual nerfs baseline, add flex to it. Make separate RWF mode with leaderboards.
I think the game needs to move towards being addon-less, smooth the difficulty curve, and design clear, consistent raid mechanic markers, and understand that this process would take time, many tiers worth. FFXIV normal raids have comparable mechanics to Normal and sometimes Heroic in WoW but they have taught their playerbase over time. Mechanics from older Savage fights trickle down over time, appearing later in some form in Extreme fights and eventually Normal and dungeons. That and the logistical nightmare that is a Mythic roster is harming raid health.
If you want the game to be harder go pug like the other 99% of the player base.
Imo they should get rid of LFR as a first step.
– Current normal replaces LFR. No more waiting for 2 bad tanks, because their queue is shorter, but have no clue about the class/encounter. You have responsibilty. Also difficulty is something between lfr and normal. Just a chill starter raid for everyone putting in a bit of time. Not an afk / clown festival like LFR. If you can clear it with decent randoms without much knowledge its fun. People wanting more may search for a heroic guild.
– Heroic basically stays as it is, but its gear has the highest ilvl ingame.
– Mythic is purely cosmetic besides mount. Its just a challenge mode and not a tool to overgear yourself and be able to faceroll easy content to shuffle paying players.
-ofc myth plus dungeons 15 or so are on heroic raid ilvl. 20+ is challenge/cosmetic. No more easy overgearing and shuffle paying players.
15:06 love how he said heroic fyrakk is easy when 75% of the pugs can’t finish it. Lol
There is a large push and pull between teaching players how to play and learn their class and the game and dev having some sort of player expectations. I think Blizz devs too often are dependent on the community to teach new players about their class and how to play the game. Spoiler alert, the community is shit at it. I think mythic raiding is too hard and asks too much from players. A large amount of plays have gone back to Classic because top end raiding does not ask a bonkers amount from players.
The fall of subscriptions can be directly tied to hard raids. The game shouldn’t be catered to the players whose lives are dedicated to and income is based on content about the game.
I've raided, not counting a couple pug spots at the end of vanilla, since BC. I lost interest with the first boss in castle nath. All raids in dragonflight are the same. You're not playing wow, you're dancing, the entire damn time. It doesn't feel like wow, it feels like some kind of guitar hero game tapping your movement buttons more than actually doing anything. I didn't start playing keyboard hero, I started playing wow…
I am in a similar boat of heroic is a little too easy for my group. I think the simple solution is just make mythic easier. We are already seeing mythic guilds get ruined and break up over the stress of how hard it is. Plus the gap between current heroic and mythic is so wild that I don’t think it’d hurt to just lower it a bit. That way people who are happy with hero don’t need to worry and numbers can stay up while those who want to push higher but can’t spend 12 hours a week on it can join in.
Just like 40 man raids became 25 and then 20 time to change that to 15 or even 10, Mythic raiding isn't hard cus of a challenging game its hard cus of the 20 man requirement. I've been raiding since Legion and only raided in 2 guilds one died and the other is dying cus of this stupid 20 man requirement.
Heroic too easy, Mythic is too hard for something requiring 20 people on a schedule.
Do Heroic+. Make it so it remains Flex, and there's mostly cosmetic stuff in there, maybe an intermediate level of gear between current Heroic and Mythic. Point towards a difficulty which should be achievable once you have a nearly full set of heroic gear
Or Blizzard rebrands Mythic as Legendary and creates a new difficulty between Heroic and Legendary called Mythic.
I wouldn't mind Flex if Blizzard could balance it without having wierd fights making it harder for smaller groups but easier for bigger groups AKA Kilrogg and Gorefiend from WOD
I loved the chef example at the end of the vid. I also love how frequently we get food analogies. Keep em coming, bois. Ｏ(≧▽≦)Ｏ
I think you're mis-remembering. Yes, 10N got harder but thats not what killed the raiding scene then.
The problem was while they TRIED to make them equal in difficulty, 10N/H was still easier than 25N/H due to pure logistics. Mechanics are easier when there are less people to mess them up. In Cata they also removed the iLvL difference between 10 and 25, so raid size didnt matter. This lead to 25-man guilds splitting up into 2 teams and blasting 10H for gear that was the same iLvL as 25H. Don't forget, the "World First" race was for 25H, not 10-man.
The result is 25-man guilds blasting 10H and taking all of the ranking slots that the more casual guilds pursued THEN went on to dominate 25-man rankings. Not to mention there were certain fights that just were abysmally balanced and nearly unkillable on 10H but a total cakewalk on 25H. (Omnitron Defense System anyone?)
If heroic isn't made harder give us a heroic plus or mythic flex. Same difficulty and lockout as mythic, just with an easier roster boss.
They can do the gigga tuning for mythic 20 and that can be the RWF.
25m was easier than 10m. Just harder roster boss.
More redundancy in utility and CD.
We have a new patch cadence now, they should use it!
e.g.
10.2 = Mythic raid as it is right now
10.2.5 = close hall of fame, make possible to join mythic 10, mythic lockout works the same as heroic
Normal has to be the easy mode, heroic should be harder and lfr is the real challenge mode
Just make Mythic 10 man a thing. The biggest challenge in Mythic is organising the amount of players it requires.
ManualMike… I see what you did there 😂
The game was never hard dude. It's just RNG
I clicked to announce my appreciation for the thumbnail.
I wonder if that makes me clickbaited.
Actually that doesn’t sound like a bad idea…
Tone down Mythic, but add a ‘Prestige’ difficulty that rewards the same power as mythic, but additional cosmetics.
That is an additional mode that is hard for those who want a challenge as opposed to just wanting gear.
It would be good if they had hard mode buttons. For the mythic race, the last mythic boss only opens when you have completed the others on hard mode.