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4 Truthful Traits That Define a Casual and Try Hard World of Warcraft Player! There are WAY more than just 4 but we’ll start here.
00:00 Intro
01:27 Time
03:18 Gameplay
04:22 Difficulty
05:10 The Problem
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I'm a classic player who is getting into retail and it is so different. In classic I guess I would be considered a social player, do they still exist in retail? Honestly, I’d say I’m more casual with try hard aspirations. Personally, I want challenges in the game. I don’t want everything to be super easy. I didn’t raid until a few years ago even though I’ve been playing since, I don’t know, Wrath? There are few things in this game better than the rush of downing a boss you’ve been knocking your head against for several hours, or a few weeks. It’s a rush and it’s awesome. But you don’t get that without the challenge of it. That being said, I’m not a pumper. Never have been, probably never will be.
Oh boy are both toxic. Casuals need to understand that if you don’t put in the work, you don’t get to do certain things. Take MoP remix. I just started playing that last week. I’m a month behind. Trying to catch up feels impossible (it’s not, but it feels that way at times). On the other hand try hards can be very exclusionary. But, if you are looking to blast through content, do non pumpers have a place in a group like that? Probably not, unless they are willing to carry someone.
I’m not sure what I’d classify myself as besides a social player. I love the content but I also love the social interaction. It’s how I met Jae and then you through him. Retail seems like more of a solo game (please correct me if I’m wrong) so I’m not sure where I’ll fall come War Within. I’m looking forward to finding out though.
I think trying to narrow the player base down into 2 groups is terriblly inaccurate. Like with all things, the extreme ends get all the press. Some will say because you try at all, you're a try hard. Some will say because you're not pushing yourself to the very limits, you're a lazy casual. I say, play the game however you want up until you get into content that involves other people. Then, just like in real life, some compromises will have to be made on everyone's part.
People who want to AFK between every boss pull and expect everyone to wait is just a lazy bum, not a casual. A 476s zoomers who rushes to Thok while folks are still rezzing from Spoils and locking out folks are just self centered ass-wipes not a try hard. Remix has brought out a lot of bad behavior on everyone's part
Great vid and well explained. toxic on both sides, so true! As a try hard, i LOVE casual players. I actually think they make the game better! I really only have a problem with toxic casual players, who want the game on easy mode when they haven't put the time in. but for the average casual player, i love them and try to help them out when i can! (do they realize the game would be dead if everyone could finish it and do all the hardest content in the 1st week?)
What confuses me is this idea that they get upset about, is literally a foundational aspect to every single thing in life. Want to become a profession athlete, expect to put 1,000's of hours in your game. want to become a great musician? expect to put 1000's of hours into your craft. Want to become the best at your job? expect to put 1,000's of hours in your craft. Want to become a doctor or specialized tradesman? expect to put 1,000's of hour in education.
But then we get to wow, and all of a sudden they throw that very foundational principal out the window and go "i want to be up there with the best right away" its literally insane. I think you said it best, there is content MADE for the hardcore players! and shouldn't it be that way?! blizz needs to have content for ppl who play alot, and ppl who play a little.
So casual players, we love you. if you are one of those complain casual, go join normal raids and use the looking for raid grps. those were MADE you YOU! please, let us run our heroics and mythic in peace without getting mad because we have, and chose, to commit more time to this game than you guys did.
What I wish I would have added in the video is that I feel that you become more toxic as you lean more to the 100% marker of casual or try hard. Are there 100% casual and try hards out there? Possibly? But it’s not down to just “You’re a 100% try hard” or “You’re 100% casual”. Everyone floats around somewhere.
I would say personally I am more on the casual side as I don't care if I finish the game by any means but I do speed level as I also don't care about the lore of the game either lol! I used to back in BC when i started, but now i have lost all interest in that stuff and just want to max level and get decent enough gear to efficiently plow through quests and farming with little to no issues lol. This has always been just a source of amusement for me to kill time with nothing more. I don't belong to guilds I don't care about any of the social stuff as everyone i played with have long moved on, like i said, the game is just a fun way to kill time! I farm mostly just to make gold and i pay for raids to get the stuff i want when i want it. Lot of this is due to just not having hours upon hours of time to dedicate to raid teams and also the level of toxicity in the game makes me want to stay as a solo casual player! Way too many elitists as i call them, you call them Try hards, most of us call them elitists! They know it all and really hate on us casuals who don't take the game as serious as they do, its like they get offended by us just not giving a shit lol! Oh well, not my problem, I'm just here to enjoy what limited time I do have for the game! regardless of the way you enjoy the game though, kudos to ya and keep on doing you, at the end of the day what others say about ya, really means zero! Move on and enjoy anyway you choose to, that's your right to do so lol!
Personally I like to front load my seasons by being more in the “try hard” camp and gear up quickly and push my m+ score, while as people kind of thin out and m+ is harder to group up with I go back towards the questing and enjoying the actual content in the game. I’ve been trying to finish off all the quest lines in DF before the new expansion comes out and just enjoining the relaxing quest completion vibe. I won’t complain about being able to one shot a lot of PvE enemies now though with max gear that makes quest completion faster haha. I still do my weekly heroic raid with my guild but I really like being able to change the pace and be more of a casual gamer.
Im a brand-new player. I find it's best not to pay attention to what anyone says and I try not to take anything personally because I know so little about the game, I'll take positive and negative comments to learn the game. A thick skin helps as well as a don't give a fuck what anyone thinks attitude. It's a fun game.
So, going to push back on the "wanting everything easy" theory. Dude I'm super casual, but I also enjoy a bit of a challenge. In retail my guild runs heroic. In regards to MOP, my issues as a casual player is there is no challenging group content avail. Any scenario, dungeon or raid I join, has one or two player who one shot everything. So that group content that would be sufficient for my gear/cloak level is trivialized by the "tryhards" as you call them.
I don't know what the fix for this is, but there should be a way for more casual players to experience content that is challenging for their level without having to compete on the S-tier track.
It's resulted In me lvling two toons in MOP remix to 70 and calling it a day because unless I want to conquer the kun lai sized mountain that is gearing/grinding I won't be able to access any content outside of soloing in which I make a meaningful impact.
For the record I'm not blaming anyone or targeting anyone, I'm just saying that there are those of us that like a bit of challenge but don't have the time or will grind for hours.
Thanks for the video, interesting takes.
both sides are toxic and for the panda remix ya that kind of addon shouldnt be there when you can bring level 20s who just 1 shot the bosses
Im a casual for sure but from my perspective I think they should just make the best loot stop at a lower level and make it where the "TRY HARDS" are just better because they actually are better. I feel like SWTOR did that well. Make it all accessible and let the leet players shine on skill. Im sure some will disagree and that's ok but there is plenty to do in wow no need for a gear mountain IMO (also this would bring in more players who either don't have time or find wow too complicated)
I'm tryhard, but I'm not a dick about it. I have a ton of time to play, I come from a sports background so I have always been about the challenge and the grind. But I'm not tryhard ENOUGH, if that makes sense. I get my KSM, then KSH. I mythic raid between 3 and 5 toons, but I don't push keys. There's no reward in it, I went to 3k once, last season, just to do it once. I don't have a group of friends, and I'm not in the cliques of my guild so that means I pug everything except mythic raid. And it is rough. It is HARD. No matter how good you are (and I'll never say I'm great or incredible, I just know what I'm doing and work hard) it is rough pugging all your progression on multiple toons. Because of that experience I am very nice to the people I play with. I don't crap on my pugmates no matter what goes wrong. I encourage the group when things look rough. And I will stick with a group or raid party until we finish or until I'm the last to leave. It's not hard to be a decent person, and I try to bring that to my WoW experience. Guess I'm a Pally main at heart. Be excellent to each other.
I am a casual hardcore in Remix. Somehow i found fun in being in top with no stress of itemisation looming over me. Just run and have fun. Even cleared mythic soo, wich i never have done in retail.
Moral of this story: avoid people lol
casuals dont want to understand the game they simply want to exsist in the game !
😂I like to catch these tryhard pve players in open world accidentally pvp enabled so I can kill them and giggle when they use their massive AoE burst thinking itle do something in a single target fight been doing this since Legion
Quite funny given how the power progression is making group content incredibly easy.
i personally think im a casual, i play for roughly an hour or two everyday depending but i do very high lvl content im a CE raider and have all my portals in M+. but but but thats not casual… just beause im good at a game doesn't mean im pouring countless hours into the game. like a true casual isn't watching world of warcraft content so to everyone in the comments (like myself) you aren't a true casual, my father in law plays wow, collects mounts and is in a guild to sometimes gets AOTC but he doesnt watch wow content doesnt look up boss guides and i think thats the true wow casual not because hes "bad" but to him its a game and thats all it is, just like when you would play mario party, you dont go and look up videos about mario party or what the strategy is for all the mini games and what not you just play
So I am not done with your video, but I think you are missing a category. Based on the first 8 minutes, I’m a casual and I agree with that for wow. I am married, 5 kids, a LTC in the US Army, and work in the pentagon. I don’t have tons of extra time. I am also a reg poker player as an additional source of income. This is the paradigm I think about with wow. See in poker we have 3 main categories of players. The Rec’s (recreational players. They play for fun. It is their release valve. They don’t really care about winning or losing (they like to win, but it’s not why they play). The regulars (profitable players who play a lot like 15-35 hrs a week) but it’s more than just time at the table. It’s learning and thinking about the game, not just showing up and seeing what happens. They take poker seriously and treat it like a part time job. The third is the pros (professional players) whose primary income is poker and it is central in their life. The analogy is easy here. Casuals are the Recs, try yards are the professionals… what we need is that middle category. They take wow seriously, watch videos like this but due to any number of factors (including choice) don’t fit into the try hard category. Now, if you talk about this later in the video, sorry…. Going back to watch it now!
My take on the matter is that 'toxicity' isn't a trait that's associated with one or the other. You sort of 'went there' in the video, but it was still tied to the labels at both ends of the spectrum between 'casual' and 'try hard'. In reality, I think what we're really trying to tease-out of the situation are two spectra: casual -> try-hard, and also non-toxic -> toxic. Maybe a quick example will help clarify what I'm trying to say.
Genre: MMO-RPG.
As an MMO (massively multiplayer online) game, other people are the differentiator. Contrast that with single-player gaming, where it's just you and all the NPC's. Now, no one forces anyone to play with others so a person can play WoW as a single-player and still do very well in terms of gear, power, etc. But here's the part that I think a lot of people overlook: IF and WHEN you find yourself among other players, it's better not to be a butthead by pretending that they don't matter. But, the toxic players will be buttheads. Not only will they be… they actually derive some measure of pleasure by being buttheads… knowing full well that what they're doing is going to negatively impact other players. And, these sorts of butthead-players aren't more likely to be casual or more likely to be try-hards. Instead (brace yourself for a bit of clinical speak), they tend to fall into two general buckets of personality traits: immature, or 'dark tetrad'.
When we're immature, we tend to compete for things. Not simply for the sake of competition, but more from a win-lose mindset: we want to 'win' (to get what we're after) and we're not all that concerned about whether our goal to get that thing impacts others. We're selfish, or perhaps to put a finer edge on things: we're self-centered. Think of two 5-year olds who both want the only red fire truck in their kindergarten class. Do they tend naturally to share? Nope. They each want it for themselves. Not because they're 'toxic', but because they're 5-years old. And as they grow, hopefully, there are a few adults in their lives that will teach them to share… to think of others as well as thinking of themselves. And if these lessons are learned well, then as the child matures, they'll learn to 'play well with others'.
This self-centeredness can, and often does, get magnified among some players. The reasons are myriad, and often require a bit of nuance to tease-out but essentially, these players with a magnified sense of self qualify for a 'dark tetrad' diagnosis. I won't get into all the details here but if you're not familiar with the term, a quick search online and a handful of articles later, you'll almost certainly recognize the truth of what I'm going to say here: in the literature, the 'troll' has a higher correlation with trait 'sadism'. Sadism, generally speaking, is when someone gets pleasure from their awareness that 'what they just did' caused (or likely caused) someone else to feel bad. It's not simply that they don't care that what they're doing might negatively affect others; it's that they do it deliberately to negatively affect others. And as a long-time WoW player, I can tell you that this is quite often the case. Not because I'm being cynical in my interpretation, but from other players' own confessions in chat (or in whispers).
So then, getting back to what I wrote about *two* spectra rather than one, trolls (aka 'dark tetrads') just want to make other people 'lose' at whatever they're doing. From mat-gathering to quest-mob killing, to rare-farming… trolls relish opportunities to make other people feel bad in some way — really, in any way. That act gives them their 'sadism juice', if you will.
Here are a few quick numbers from real life to consider: Depending on the source, sadism tends to be somewhere between 3-7% of the typical population. In positions of great power and/or authority, this number tends to be twice as high (so, for example, high level government officials, CEO's, etc.) at maybe 5-12%. Contrast that with in-game demonstrations of both behavior and chat-confessions, and we see numbers that seem to me to be perhaps twice as high as the govt/CEO figures. There are many individual reasons why this might be the case but generally speaking, it's linked to something often referred to as the 'onlinle disinhibition effect'. If you remove 'consequences' from behavior, many humans — even those who aren't dark tetrads — tend to 'act-out' in ways that would not if there were consequences. and that's largely what I see in-game: unless the immature player and the dark tetrad player experience consequences that they care about in-game, they have no external pressure to 'play nice with others'.
SInce this is becoming longer than most people want to read, I'll close with a personal anecdote from yesterday: Logged into my 61 druid to do the daily scenario, dungeon, and raid quests. First time through scarlet monestary, I got the quest to get the swords that, at the end, you impale Whitemane's corpse with. Some demon hunter with 18-million health blazed from start to finish so quickly that by the time I was able to reach Whitemane, she had despawned. So, I had to run the dungeon a second time in order to complete that quest. A minor inconvenience, but one that was wholly unnecessary if — *IF* — the demon hunter had been a person who 'plays well with others'. But they weren't. They were queueing for GROUP content, and then when they got into a group, the played as if they were single-player: what they wanted was all that mattered.
There's no way I can know what a complete stranger to me was motivated by, but their lack of 'with others' awareness is undeniable. Maybe they wanted to blaze through because they were racing to beat their previous 'fastest run' record. Or, maybe they were toxic and they did what they did fully aware that some lowbie was going to not be able to complete their quests. But in either case, there's no denying that such behavior is self-centered. And that self-centeredness is inarguably toxic if/when it's indulged in a *GROUP* activity in-game.
Long comment. For those who read the whole thing, thanks for your time and attention. And if you happen to be one of the buttheads… just stop it. If you can solo a dungeon, then fly to the entrance and hit your 10-per-hour lockout on your own… speedrun on your own… but, when you group with others, play like the entire group matters — because it does.
The developers at Blizzard increased the toxicity exponentially when they connected realms into groups. Before that each realm was like a neighborhood or university. Where you knew almost everybody, either by playing with them or seeing them out in the world daily/weekly. And if someone was toxic, it quickly spread to not play with them, which was a check and balance of the community by the community. Now it's easier than ever for toxic people to evade bans and suspensions.
So I’ve been playing since WoD…..I would call myself like a mid casual I play more than I used too…and wouldn’t mind doing higher level content but my experience has been I get yelled at by beta vanilla chads who think they are gods gift to WoW.
I like playing the game I want to do more challenging stuff but when you constantly feel like if you do something wrong it kinda makes the game less fun.
Also I get annoyed in MoP remix because people make rules like ilvl 450 and such and I’m like “sooo the better the raid the more bronze I can’t get to that level if you don’t let people in”
Unfortunately I think that’s the state of not only WoW but gaming in general where casuals can’t enjoy because of the try hards and vice versa. Not sure how to fix that either