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Have you ever felt like Modern WoW stories just feel kinda… off? Why was MoP’s faction war well received while BfA was hated? While we’re all farming bronze and collecting mounts, lets take a moment to figure out why that is.
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00:00 Intro
01:22 What’s the issue?
02:25 What MoP Did Right
04:08 How BfA Compares
05:55 MoP Quests too!
08:21 And for BfA’s quests?
09:29 On “Marvel-ifcation”
09:58 Why War Within is Different
11:50 Outro
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we need a Sixcamera cameo
This was such a good video! I am a bit wary of TWW, but I hope it kicks ass 🙂
It's weird hearing you conclude on an optmistic note citing BfA and Shadowlands as narrative-evolving scars leading into War Within, but COMPLETELY avoid mentioning Dragonflight 😆it's not a positive upwards trend on in-game storytelling if you don't omit the roll downhill that was the entirety of the last expansion, the one that's actually leading into War Within.
I really agree with the message of this video. I do miss when the leaders and NPCs were powerful leaders in the world, and not our buddies we hang with. Yeah, all the NPCs are still people and have feelings and day to day lives, but not everyone should just hang with the king. When you do it should feel special imo. Like it used to.
this game is dead…
they spit on us since no one even remembers, before "you think you do", before even WoD…
MoP was the expansion they gave up on what most faithful veterans wanted… they abandoned Cataclysm world and quests, and that's why Cataclysm zones and quests are still here. nothing is updated apart from new expansion. instead they are twisting players hands making them buy another "new continent" expansion… over and over again, where you should buy those tokens otherwise you can't progress because grind takes too much time…
this game is dead
Great vid as always Six! -Helbrook
"I don't think its a bad thing"
It absolutely is and I'll tell you why:
You don't matter. As in, your character. It is the personal stories of some other characters you get to experience. For a MMO, that's flat out bad storytelling.
You can go two routes with this:
– Old WoW
Politics and the world are the center stage. You can place your actions and characters in this context while experiencing a larger tale that happens to contain multiple characters in it.
– FF14
You are the main protagonist of the tale and every personal story beat you get to experience ties to your personal journey one way or another.
The modern WoW storytelling would have Emet-Selch's entire zone confrontation happen not to the player character, reflecting on every action that brought them there, but rather they would do to the scions, hell maybe just Thancred or something like that, and you get to watch and fight that character's memories – Not the ones from your character.
Don't beleive me? That's literally what just happened on the most recent Dragonflight MSQ with Alleria. Literally. Shadowy figure forces a deeply personal confrontation in attempt to control the protagonist to the conclusion they wish for them to take.
Same motivation, same character roles, different approach. One is shadowbringers, probably my favorite MMO story ever, the other was forgetable to me.
What you claim to be 'scars' from BfA and Shadowlands to me are still present. Dragonflight has the exact same problems. You get to experience the problems of other characters as a mute killing machine they activate to advance the plot sometimes.
I can appreciate those stories to a point but the utter disconnect I feel from it makes them worse.
Like, let's use the short stories they have been publishing for War Within. I like them just fine. I'm a passive reader of a story, I get to relate feelings and travel through the beats.
It works there. It does not work on a game like WoW. Flat out.
No one cares about your opinion of the State of WoW
Been playing since day one, not had this much fun since the Lich king xpac.
Remember when WoW didn't have main characters?
Thank you! This is a subject that has been on my mind for years! I’ve been hoping more people would talk about it. With that said, I love the way you wrapped this up. I am absolutely stoked for the world soul saga
lovely! <3
I thought the faction war was stupid then and now, so I am not with some of you on that point anyways. "Conflict ball" wars are always dumb. I thought BFA handles characters better.
I still don't consider MoP as "peak" just "sorta interesting" myself. Hard for me to like any war expansion when I find the premise silly since we will have a real issue to deal with soon again
SUCH A UNDERRATED CREATOR!
How many WoW tokens and store mounts have you bought in your time playing WoW?
I just got fatigued of the endless world ending calamities happening every patch. It never feels like the world matters when its constantly on the verge of ending, and gameplay wise is nothing but unchanging static layers that they dont want you in unless its the current ones.
You really can feel presence in all the dialogue of MoP!! Looking at the SoO cinematic was really good as an example!
Great video as usual! I see you must be enjoying the MoP Remix to get such a good retrospective!
Alright already I subbed! Sheessshhh…
I agree. BfA had some great story elements, but it felt like the build-up just wasn't as powerful. Not there as much as it should have been. Shadowlands, imo, was a complete travesty of an expansion that gave us a few tiny slivers of story building for TWW. Dragonflight has been really good at just being a palate cleanser, as someone else said in the comments. This expansion has given us major changes in, not just world story, but mechanics of the game. This has been Blizzard's HAVE ALL THE NEW THINGS expansion. Customization updates, new ways to get collectables, transmog revamps, a new way to fly, a shift in how we earn things, and even bringing back more fluid and dynamic talent trees. WoW is an ever-evolving game, with a constantly shifting player base. The children and even some grandchildren of the original players are playing now. WoW has grown up with them, and just like how a person changes as they grow, so does this game. Its what keeps it relevant and attractive to new players and old. I play ESO too, and it can't hold my attention like WoW has since I started playing 14 years ago. Six, this was a great video! You're on your way to being a big player in the WoW video world, and I can't wait to watch your meteoric rise! – Elianna
Well made ❤
Very good analysis. I mostly agree. There’s a bit more to dig into, however.
From what I’ve seen of Beta, they’re close to hitting the nail in the head with the MSQ in TWW having both the Alliance and Horde land into Khaz Algar in the end. This factor is one present in BFA and it’s one of the main appealing features it has: it pushes the various races stories forward. That gives enough push to the worldbuilding so it’s enjoyable. This aspect wasn’t really brought up in your video, but I consider it very important and I think both MoP and BFA succeeded in this front (while SL and DF really dismissed the whole idea).
I think you’re putting way more emphasis on the impact of cutscenes and things like that. So many players just don’t care about than stuff, but things like the Azerite grind in BfA affected everyone. I found so much of the story and aesthetics of BFA to be banger, but I can see why people hated it at the time. It was a major grind that didn’t feel rewarding.
I really want WoW to win me back over, DF felt like friendship bracelet expansion with soft threats
I'd take a Legion, MoP or even WoD style expansion again pls, ty haha xD
Mop is ass and will always be associated ass. Just like the rest of retail from cata and beyond.
Gotta be the naysayer here, I'm afraid. I love me some MoP. But I also loved BfA, and, just like MoP, the general consensus does seem to be coming around. If you weren't moved, motivated and gripped, by the burning of Teldrassil, Old Soldier, the choices between loyalist and turncoat on the Horde side, the coming together under one banner, the all new but compelling politics of Zandalar, by Saurfang's Mok Gorah, then I'm not sure you have a soul. (No hate, just sayin' I disagree.) The only things wrong with BfA were mechanics shenanigans, (can we please have an end to borrowed power, Blizz? Seriously,) and a bit of a disconnect between the 4th war stuff and the Void stuff. If you're a Sylvanas Stan, then you might also be salty as hell that her character was underserved, at best, and I won't argue the point. (I honestly think she was a far more compelling character in BfA than in Shadowlands, but that's a whole other kettle of stank.) If you want to see how to create a terrible expansion, look to Shadowlands. BfA arguably had a whole lot more going for it than that, or, looking back, than WoD. Imho, folks hate on BfA because they're salty about Sylvanas, or about mechanics, not because it was a bad expansion.
Taran Zhu didn't get stabbed. He caught the blunt end of Gorehowl to the gut.
MoP is not universally beloved, some people hated the panda theme
The game is dead
Good video. Good content.
Also, Pandas are dumb.
👍
In vanilla the major lore chars were practically cameos more than anything else. I always preferred that, though I did find the first several expansions that unreasonable.
I mourn the cognitive depth of modern brain-rot, datamining, parsing gamers. Panda's entire story line was about emotions, literally the Sha's. However nowadays players are so dull they can't read into character development of DF and TWW more than surface level so if there's not an angry brown orc or a black & white smoke monster ear-rape yelling at them, they check out instantly. The depth of modern players is a short lived tragic tale of unsustainability and an inevitable downfall of personal enjoyment due to an intellectual numbing agent.
Wow, I've only JUST discovered this channel and I already feel a more deep personal connection to their discussions about things relating to WoW.
This video more or less described my feelings about this game's story perfectly, even if I fully didn't know it myself. Thanks for showing up on my recommended dude. Here, have a like and sub. 🙂
There's plenty of world in Warcraft. You just have to look for it. MoP was great, BFA was kinda sold on a lie
How you describe BfA is how MoP felt at the time when MoP was alive. I think MoP only feels better in hindsight because mostly everything after was a trainwreck. MoP started to deteriorate the factions, particularly in that they had a solid moral gray to them prior to MoP. Garrosh going from a dopey, but well meaning warchief in Cata then flippping on his head in MoP felt so disjointed at the time. It also was paced very poorly, where MoP starts out along similar lines of both Horde and Alliance doing what they felt best for their faction, but if you were Horde every patch really escalated Garrosh into being a mustache twisting villain with little build up. I've heard you had to read books to see it better, but from a strictly gameplay experience it was jarring. Ironically while everything in BfA generally stunk, especially the main story quest for painfully similar reasons as MoP, I feel like BfA's individual zone questing doesn't get a lot of attention for being interesting; Zandalar, Nazmir, the Blood Trolls, Dying Loa, and anything with Bwomsamdi was very memorable and all served as a sort of escape from the awful MSQ. The Alliance zones had some neat ideas too with the Old God cults and Drust, but neither was capitalized on. Regardless, the leaders should feel like a representation of their faction/race, and that's not really a thing that happens anymore. Assuming that because there's a common enemy to fight is going to make these characters interesting is a stretch, and to think that will mirror upon our characters is a further stretch unless they plan on reviving some mild faction drama and utilizing some lesser known characters taking some attention away from big names and focusing it into smaller zone lore.
Nobody tell him that you can open the world map, the world is there!
It's hilarious when people complain about WoW being Marvel-like.
Yeah, Metzen and the others LOVED Marvel and stole entire meta plotlines from the comics they loved. Someone best described Warcraft as "The comics Gimli and Legolas would read".
You want Warcraft to be like Marvel!
Anyway, great video.
dude you are on point with your facs
You get that grandiose feeling even with the characters you hang out with like young Anduin and Loremaster Cho. We need this writing back in WOW but the alpha doesn’t look very promising in that regard unfortunately. Tho ngl despite everything i enjoyed df and im still looking forward to the world soul saga.
I know I'm going to be Pumped for what's to come!!
We need an expansion that legitimately knocks the players down a peg. Something that takes us off that throne we're on. Considering what's been hinted at so far about the next three expansions, I'm hoping this is it.
This is why I only play Era and HC.
Thanks for shining that beacon of hope at the end of war within since I am really interested in anduin in particular and how his story will shape up and I do hope with midnight being all about uniting the elven tribes if they are going to make the elven leaders these larger than life figures again, it would be amazing to see that.
I want less world/universe ending threats and more down to earth/Azeroth faction conflicts, to be a soldier or citizen in my chosen faction as a small part of something larger and not some demigod and to be immersed in a fantastic world I and many players call "home" On another note unrelated with the technology they have been working on to develope the underground systems of war within how long will it be before we can fly to each continent without portals?…making portals and in turn makes more sought-after
I wonder when it happend to be belowed expansion. I remeber haldf of my friends leaving wow during Cataclysm, and then the ones who stayed all left in Pandaria, guilds were closing, or merging, cause lack of players. and whole year of Raiding SOO killed the rest. those who stayed keep complaining that Pandaria t doesnt fit WOW. But, well comparing to Dreanor, it was much better….
I really like BFA lol
I think it’s my favourite xpac
I played WoW for YEARS, from 2004 to probably I dunno, 2012 and I can tell you exactly what happened… The great story that was Warcraft 3 ended with the fall of the Lich King. From this point on the "writers" stopped thinking up new villains and started thinking up reasons for existing characters to become villains… The story was progressing towards a Horde/Alliance reconciliation, peace… if not for its own sake than for the sake of battling a greater threat, and of course that threat was the Burning Legion. It was here that so many stories went off the rails.. WTF happened to Thrall, leaving the Horde, stepping down as Warchief, not ending up with Jaina… Turning Garrosh into a Villain, Killing Blaine Bloodhoof… My god so many FUCKING TERRIBLE decisions… The story of this game just went to shit, went completely to shit… Stuff that was clearly set up in the story was just thrown in trash and the story became trash… The original writers who penned the story that everyone was invested in stepped down and the kids who took over had no respect for any of it burned it all to the ground and wrote their own stuff… and surprise surprise the stuff they came up with was dogshit… THAT IS WHAT DOOMED WORLD OF WARCRAFT.
I think another big thing is the characters themselves. When Varian spoke it carried weight and I listened and respected everything he said. I can’t stand Manduin and his sniveling uncertainty in everything he does. 0 respect so I could care less what happens to him. Man I miss Varian. Almost embarrassing to be an Alliance main.
nice transmog
This channel is such a breath of fresh air. Instead of crying about wows problems and saying that its dead and hasnt been good since wotlk you discuss the problems in a constructive way and show that theres still some sense to blizzards storytelling and actions overall.