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Hey guys, as most people who watch my stream has heard atleast once before, I personally think that historically the best tanks are previous DPS players. In this video I’ll go over the main issues with the current state of tanking, and why career tanks are usually people who don’t try to optimize their performance.
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I mean, I really enjoy tanking M+ and raids nowadays too… I don't know why people are complaining that tanks don't do damage… When I play a tank, I wanna be beefy, not a heavy hitter
Every role should be competitive, you just don't have 'the metric' for a tank to see at face value, you have to take them into content and see how they talk and feel. Especially with your other tanks if you're progging.
Okay I’ve played every expansion extensively except for MoP. Never touched it. I’m a CE tank player.
No cap wtf is he talking about when he is mentioning vengeance in MoP? Vengeance wasn’t introduced until legion. Is there a stat or something I’m missing that was created for and removed after MOP??
hm…I've been tanking in well over 100 games over the course of 20 years..and as much as I agree with you that there's no easy to see progression for a tank's abilities and skill, there is a natural progression we all go through. Being an acceptable tank in wow is easy, but mastering it is just as difficult as in any other game. You're not just smacking stuff and bringing in groups and pressing the "don't hurt me" buttons, there's much more to look at. Granted, at this point, most every tank "knows" what they need to be doing and the bar for what is and isn't a good tank has gotten higher. Just look at a beginner tank who's still leveling and watch them grow. It'll take them upwards if not beyond a year to get "just ok" as a tank nowadays.
As a heroic raider that only did the first couple bosses for mythic building a key in m+ has been the best way for me to practice tanking or doing any spec really. For raids I'd even do lfr and normals to practice the few mechanics they still have in them even if they did no damage in there. I am really hoping I can save up enough money to get the game for me and my girlfriend since she never really did m+ before and I think she'd love it.
Damage dealer "demand" the tank know every single mechanic, every single dungeon and every single shortcut in dungeons. They totally depend of tank knowledge and provide 0 utility. Healer can be under intense attack and they don't even move to kill mobs attacking healer. If healer dies, wth will heal you? Being tank or healer is very frustrating.
It’s just the game being bad and not improving
I needed to hear this, thanks
Issue for me is guilds become complacent and I want to do more and be more.
Logs is fun , but when some guilds get heroic on farm or people who are looted gear first end up not showing up for farm and it ends a season. Lol
It’s also hard to get better when you’re your own guide. In M+ you’re strats are the only ones you know. Requires a lot of outside research and testing that sometimes DPS and healers don’t want to do with say a PUG tank.
I’m glad I play WotLK with 4 friends because ranking without friends is miserable when learning your role. Always been a dps warrior not a prot. Holy shit wow community, take it easy. Be helpful if you tank isn’t doing what it’s supposed to do, don’t be a cunt or dick about it. Tanking is a lot of fun, being belittled by dps is infuriating
I tanked VOI a few times to completion. The other day I joined LFR cos I was bored. I was the only tank…so we cleared trash while we waited for another. Healer decides to pull 1st boss (elites and boss need tanking). We wiped obviously then its 5 minutes of abuse about how bad i am etc. Gave up tanking fuck it.
Wow that makes sense. I started out as a dps demon hunter , always checking numbers every day using visual queues, catching those pockets of when you can unleash the most damage. Living and breathing damage meter, then when I switched to tank , I enjoyed it I was like ok I'm going to do the highest damage as a tank , I recall like 25-31k was top tier dps back in warlords.
The guild I was in as a tank I had to do good dps for raidlogs if I wasn't in the top 50 for the server at a bare minimum dps wise I would have gotten checked, but I got lucky my logs showed me at rank 14. But as progression goes on and we got the kill down actually we would just flame for the heck of it but none of us cared once we finished a raid. Gosh we would do full clears where you gotta have a mixed drink after each boss. Gosh I got so ripped. But we need one thing communication wise I think you mentioned. One ranged lead that would direct the range melee lead , a conductor for the whole raid. Then raid assignments for interrupts etc . Only those people or someone in extreme danger that is critical to the raid, can speak
Dk had some strong aoes as a tank always aoe pad haha , I found it funny when I would do an lfr as a tank I would have the highest dps. Also in the guild I was in you were required to gear and be able to play all roles for your class. I always found it odd that people would only play one role
A year late to this party… I'll say I came back for Dragonflight and only played a hot minute in WoTLK and I solely PvP'd in Shadowlands when I played season 1. Upon return to Dragonflight, I dabbled with Mistweaver because I liked Disc Priest for PvP, but then I decided to tank and I have loved every minute of my Mythic+ journey. I'm doing 18 keys and my damage is not ever my focus it's not taking excessive damage and making sure packs are not in a position to harm the group. I love the research about dungeons and the mechanics that I get to play around I average 25-30K DPS I have no clue if that is good or bad honestly, but it's typically by end of the dungeon about half what DPS is doing. I thoroughly enjoy playing a tank in Mythic+ Keys and progression through that system and love Prot Warrior I've also started gearing a Brewmaster Monk and it's just as fun with a completely different spice as well as more damage! I don't see any burnout happening, but the thing is I'm also not going to scour logs and sim my gear to the point of exhaustion… Play the game that's all this is if you incessantly obsess over it you'll burn yourself out because you don't take a break when offline. If you are in a guild where progression is work and not fun you are in the wrong guild… there are three roles for a reason DPS, Tank, and Healer… They're literally defined by title tanks don't die, dps well does all the damage, and healers heal so keep it simple and just have some fun.
I don't care. I find dps boring. I only heal or tank. I don't know why but I just make people safe.
I am learning how to tank atm (about 2 weeks in) and I must say its really easy to tunnel into staying alive as it is first thing you need to really work at, but I am aware of my low dps and plan on working on it now that I have learned how to keep myself alive
I love playing tanks because I go back and forth and dps. When I dps I literally run circles around all the other dps because I am like this is so easy. 😂 but that is pugging. And also pugging as tank can be harder if the healer just heals themself the whole time😂 if you heal your self over everyone else by a few million you suck at healing and stop failing mechanics. 410+ ilvl in heroics that suck so bad.
They have to fix agro. Cant have tanks dps unless the other tank can keep up which makes tanking miserable when the other tank is lower ilvl or can’t dps. Ripping agro randomly sucks. Higher Ilvl dps dont have that problem generally. This is pugs only obviously but lets be honest most people pug these days. Look at the guild numbers.
I'm a prot pally one trick I've been playing only tank for YEARS. I love the progression In mythic plus getting chunkier and chunkier until you become an unkillable god pulling more and more packs is so satisfying I feel like this is the same for raids. The biggest thing that deters me from specifically retail tanking is the lack of gearing decisions. There is no diff between absorb gear, Avoidance gear, and mitigation there are really no options other than one of the four sub stats and ilvl. It feels fucking terrible in classic on the flip side you can build custom sets for each encounter which added LAYER of complexity and fun to the class
I had a ton of fun tanking as a bdk back in mists even during farm because vengenace stacking let me actually do meaningful damage as i was able to push myself more and more
I'm always focusing on minmaxing dmg playing a tank, which makes it more fun
Tanking in raid is so boring. I have been a tank main for 3 expansions and I just picked up playing DPS again because there are sooooo many tanks and healers in my guild. Getting to DPS again has kind of brought my enjoyment of the content back because I am always pushing do more DPS.
I play with a rank1 guardian tank, he dies constantly because he pulls too much threat from pug tanks without using taunt and ends up dead constantly.
Idk I mean max is always looking for ready made tanks. Find an average player and coach them to top tier level. Like invest in people.
Also, healing and tanking is 100% on dps. If a group wipes in a key. As they often do in pugs. What wiped the group? Add not dying? Totem not dying? Caster not interrupting? Dps not using defensives? Not cc the add? Not interrupt the affix? All those dps things can wipe a group. My dps was 500k your bad. Yet. You never interrupt. Never kill priority target. Don't use defensives. The wipe is on the dps.
and after all that bullshit to tank you get super pissy at everything in dungeons.
currently gearing a tank in classic era and man i just get so angry at everyone. I never get angry at someone in a dungeon or raid when i am dpsing.
rules of becoming a truly good tank:
Man up and take the heat
Improve and study every single enemy, encounter, hero class and spec with their capabilities
Mythic raiding will die off, mythic plus is more popular nowadays than raiding.
This is an old video but its still true. I think the issue with personal improvement as a player for Tanks is that we have arguably the highest upfront knowledge requirement and also we can’t easily compare our performance to other tanks. Without going online and watching other tanks play or playing a different role to watch someone else it explains a lot about why sometimes DPS players are more up to date on best ways to tank a dungeon / boss because they’ve seen a variety of tanks do it. A lot of tanks are flying solo and have to figure out things on their own and the qualities of what makes an amazing tank is not just a parse number so it’s less easily quantified.
games with logic for tanking by doing damage is totaly nonsense and contradictory i hate that kind of engine….if you want to tank than you cant do a damage if you want to damage you cant tank, what that mean? well if you want build a "dps tank" to hold agresion on boss with logic i do more dmg so boss will focus me is dumb cose you basicly must do more damage as tank than 3-4 dps in your party , secondly if you boost gear for damage, that mean your defense sux, even if hold the agression toward boss you will die fast, and if you die chanse are big the whole pt will die to…the problem with tanking in games like wow,gw2,aion and similar is that there is no actual tank, all those are defensive warriors based on stupid logic i described…i know the game allow you sit on 2 chairs with 1 butt, but thats why there are low number of good tanks, everyone blame them and the healer…however about the motivation…i dont care to be on top dmg score and whole party/clan applaud me, it's enough for me to know that I'm the one,and the healer, who kept the party alive…
These kind of takes are fascinating to me, because I don't see WoW as a skill based, competitive game at all. I play for the story, the RP and the transmog and I've never really seen it any other way. Pretty cool that one game can be both.
tanks leading dungs with back up friends so they can bully people and kick them at last boss thinking it funny wow will not adress this toxic shit correctly using the mob mentality claiming they all voted to kick as an exuse .i turned on people who try and kick people at last boss to fuel there bully narcasistic metality fueling the the hate making the game toxic blitz are to blame they still letting it happen.
I tank and I have no idea what you’re talking about.
As someone who tanks on my main, I think enjoying tanking just takes a different mindset to enjoy it. I do really enjoy playing the role that people need.
If you want the motivation to costantly improve, i do agree that focusing on your survivability is good, but Im surprised you didnt bring up pacing and positioning. In mythic plus how you set the pace is so fun, and coordinating with your tank buddy and trying to positing bosses so melee and range can do maximum dps is what Im always thinking about to improve. On farm fights that work has already been done, so that can be boring, but if you max out your gear, that is what alts are for! Play another tank spec and suddenly the fights feel different
Any player that hasn't at least tried all 3 roles isn't really that good of a player
recruiting as a tank is cancer. 99 percentile dps logger as blood dk. still fucking impossible to get in a good guild
Man, watching this gave me "Upper management discussing ways to find motivation in their high-stress business so that the general employees (DPS) can bring in more profit before this quarter ends" vibes lol
Weird.
"The Problem with Tanking in World of Warcraft" is the toxic community.
Max said the best tanks in the world don't do M+. But he said M+ is what tanks do to be real tanks… to actually show off how good they are at tanking. He said tanking raids is easy as hell as a tank. So how is he measuring the quality of these tanks? If they're not doing M+ and showing how good they are, is he judging them off their ability to easily tank raids?
Seems like the best tanks in the world would be doing M+, and that's how you would judge good tanks. Not raiding. So Max seems a bit like he has crossing wires in his thinking here.
Back in the day Prot Pally had seraphim which was a lot of fun to maximize damage with.
im that rare tank you kept talking about xD ive been playing since cata and i was garbage until about legion when my class finally came out i was a blood dk player before DH but i never cared before then because i didnt know what i wanted now i enjoy the game and am always pushing to get better i dont play as much as other people but thats because i cant choose a game and stick with it forever i like bouncing around i play league of legends, magic the gathering arena, wow, b4b, and about 12 other games so for a couple weeks ill play wow then rotate around the other games because im the only one in my friend group that plays wow so to play with my friends i play all these other games but my favorite is wow so i keep coming back then get bored playing by myself ive been in the same guild for years and i think said 2 paragraphs total to them maybe i need a new guild lol