What Went WRONG with WoW?



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World of Warcraft is a game that has existed for almost 2 decades, WoW Shadowlands has some serious issues that cant be overlooked!

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50 thoughts on “What Went WRONG with WoW?”

  1. I'd still play the game even though the story is ass, if they haven't just stuck with Legions system and watered it down. It's all the same, not that I have time to do these things, but for doing it for 5 years straight? Nah fuck that. Legion was an amazing experience my final sens off for grinding and raiding, but BFA and Shadowlands is what Legion was but worse.

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  2. You dont develop content that is worth like three months in two months… I think you severely underestimate the amount of time that goes into creating those zones. I mean think about it… You need to develop all the aesthetic aspects of the zones ranging from npcs to simple landscapes. You need to create a story line for that zone, then you need to write it down in quests and dialogues. All the dialogues need to be voiced (at least the important ones). That means you need to hire voice actors and those voice actors need to have time as well. Then the voice acting itself needs to be done. Then you need bug testing and some time to finalize the zone so it is ready for a release. There is probably a lot of coding that goes into it as well.

    And you also said that if they create and release content the way that you propose it then that content for each zone should be more than it is right now. So even more development. I can promise you, creating a zone like Bastion with even more content than it has rn takes at least three to four months… Maybe even more. If they do it the way that you propose (which I do agree with by the way, at least partially) they need to be working on at least two zones at once. Like you start the development of one zone and half way through the process another team starts with the next zone, while the others finish up the previous one.

    Take Genshin Impact for an example. That game has content updates every 90 days, but not every content update is a new zone. Sometimes it is a new character, sometimes it is a new quest line or a ton of events. I think that would be the best way to go with WoW. Lets say 9.0 is Oribos + 1 zone. Then 9.0.5 would be the final quest line for that zone + maybe a dungeon or two for that zone. 9.1 would be the next zone and so on.

    Oh, and the PTR is a necessary aspect of the game. What they should do though is to invite a certain number of people to test it. Don't make it public, make it like the beta. And make people aware that sharing content of said PTR is a violation. So that stuff doesnt get leaked (ofcourse, people will still leak, but its not as heavy and easily accessible as it is rn)

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  3. The current big brained "everything in the game is a system" is so disingenuous. People aren't referring to the primary systems that control your character movement, the GCD, the UI, the map, etc. People are talking about the secondary systems. In vanilla your player power was strictly tied to gear. Now they have added systems to after that ( secondary systems ) those are what people have a problem with.

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  4. I think the biggest problems WoW has can be described in 2 words: stubbornness & dying traditions.

    1.) Stubbornness – Blizzard will sometimes go with their head against the wall to convince the players that, it's not them who is at fault, but rather the players.
    Very rarely will they take into consideration the backlash for systems like borrowed power and exclude them in next expansion, but are much likely to force it again, only packed differently.

    2.) Dying Traditions – For some reason, Blizzard keeps on traditions such as "we MUST release new X-pac" every 2 years.
    I think this is biggest nonsense, and let me try to explain why.

    Shadowlands cinematic came out, everybody was beyond hyped about the veil, afterlife, mysterious villain, whose epic pictures and glorious beard have been leaked very early.
    Shadowlands itself came out, we got few wc3 characters (who were butchered btw.) put it, Jailer was and remained nothing but nipple guy with questionable story line, or no story line at all, since i believe the last cinematic (flashback of his 1st imprisonment in Maw) was actually supposed to be in 9.1.

    Long story short, Blizzard could easily have 9.3 even 9.4 with the amount of content Shadowlands could have handled, with the "cosmological lore expanded", new entire zone beyond the veil, etc.

    They decided to cut the content and give up on 9.3, which ruined Jailer even more as a character, made this nonsense with Dreadlords immitations? No word of Nathanos, Odin and some other important figures, and it really feels like Jailer and Dreadlords, weren't even supposed to be in Sepulcher raid.

    In order to be able to POSSIBLY release expansion after 2 years (it still remains to be seen if they'll finish it till November), they sold an unfinished product, rather than keep adding content and buy time for next expansion with the players by actually contributing to try to salvage the story & player experience.

    This way, 2 bad expansions in a row, doesn't even look promising for 10.0, bunch of players giving up on WoW (some permanently, some temporarily.. ), and let's wrap it up with good ol' Ion Hazzikostas quote: "No, we did not cut the content, this is exactly what we planned to have in Shadowlands"

    But i guess that might be some Blizzard Entertainment internal policy, which they believe might ruin the "trust" for the Company if they admit they had to cut content, cause I really don't see them gaining anything by saying they didn't cut anything, other than make themselves feel weird, so i genuinely believe the rulebook of Blizzard really might be stopping them from admitting the obvious.

    That'd be my 2 cents, if anyone even scrolled here in to the Maw of this long comment.

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  5. /cheer, lol this hits the nail on the head. Good job man!!! I find myself comparing this game to breath of the wild, and more recently Pokémon legends Arceus. It has been so long since I have been absorbed into this game in comparison to those two.

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  6. A little bit unrelated, but I see so many talks about how WoW can be saved, who can save it, what reference materials can be used to save it (like the recent Bellular's video). But the thing is, you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved.

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  7. Rep grinds have long been an unnecessary way to gate things, they can go. Borrowed power, that can go too. Remove max level boes. Remove the currency cap and allow players to earn powerful gear.

    The BoE thing is in terms of world first guilds. It feels like that race has really bolled down to what guilds can throw more gold at gear. Yes, they're skilled players and I won't deny that, but it would be a better showcase of skill (and to demonstrate how poorly tuned things are) if they didn't have that particular massive gear advantage.

    My last suggestion is simply a matter of rewarding time invested. Maybe people don't want to raid, or don't want the stress involved with trying to slog through high level keys. There could still be a way for them to earn gear of a similar item level, even if it takes much longer than people who do participate in that style of content.

    Anyway that's just my 2c.

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  8. Had a similar WoW experience with differences of starting in tbc and only playing one character. Life obligations take priority time wise, and the current WOW iteration makes it a barrier to play the content I enjoy during my free time.

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  9. WoW changed in ways that it shouldn't have, and didn't change in ways that it should have…. and it's because Blizzard refuses to listen to its community and would rather try to maximize profit and minimize effort, at least in regards to the player UX and game mechanics. It's easier to sap money from players if they're forced to do almost everything and tediously grind a lot in a game that requires a subscription to play it.

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  10. Yea I agree with you Acco they really fucked themselves with the covenants thing too many spells too much bullshit each class should of gotten a spell and movement spell. And they could of given us time to explore each place and get the mounts and achievements. If you join bastion you miss out on a lot unless you join that covenant. I pray they learn from there lessons. I've been playing since 2007 I remember being a rogue in ZG and it really brings back the feels I'd love to feel again and enjoy this game.

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  11. excluding the fact that danuser is an idiot – we accepted wows flaws because everything was new and we didnt know any better. i mean, what else you were going to do – 11? FFXIV 1.0 ? however, we all grew up, started having lives and marriages and well… yeah, straight up middleaged stuff. all of us changed.

    wow didnt, and we kept seeing that expansion after expansion.

    team FF however read the room right and while Launch FFXIV was a hilarious catastrophy – Current tier retail honors your IRL needs. you can be a functional adult and return back to online… when YOU want it or even CAN.

    this is the sign of our times, the main playerbase of mmorpgs out there is us old farts.

    those mmo´s who survive understand that.

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  12. WoW got complacent in WoD. They knew they were the best mmo around and stopped innovating outside of the raids.

    I don't think they have added a feature that actually lasts between patches since transmog. I would say pet battles but they only add pets not new leagues to play in. The Darkmoon Fair is a husk of what it should be since its vanilla launch.

    WoW used to feel like you could spend an hour and get something to futher your character. You felt like that hour had actually mattered in game. Now everything is so heavily rng based it could take an hour or 20.

    I'm playing Lost Ark while raiding in 14. Why not play WoW? Its the same boring shit as last patch. Dailies, weeklies, m+, and a little raiding. The coat of paint might of changed but its mostly the same content.

    WoW has too many end game systems for player power that heavily rely on certain aspects of gameplay. Instead of asking is it fun.

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  13. Just giving my two-cents here. I think there's a…gamer psychographic element here that we don't talk about that we really should. Basically, you have the "Monogamer", that is, someone who focuses on a singular game, vs. the "Polygamer" people who play a lot of games. There's a spectrum between the two games of course, but essentially, the Monogamer and the Polygamer have entirely different values and demands out of what they want for their time. The former is looking essentially for mastery/status. The latter is looking for experiences and exploration. WoW traditionally has largely been focused on catering to Monogamers. But the problem is that, like you said, because of things like Steam, there are less and less Monogamers out there….also, that there's more competition in the Monogame space. (League of Legends, Call of Duty, various Sports games, etc). On the other hand, you have something like FFXIV, which is expressively designed with Polygamers in mind. (To the point that Yoshi-P has decried the idea of monogaming as a whole)

    The whole GAAS thing is focused on creating games that appeal to Monogamers. This is why Polygamers don't like that sort of thing. Anyway, that's my two cents about all of this. (I think you could go deeper with underlying personality traits between Monogamers and Polygamers, and why the cultures tend to be entirely different….and why Monogamer cultures tend to be more toxic overall, but largely Polygamers often get blamed for it)

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  14. They should have done with the systems the same they have done with the talents.

    Before Cata there was one way, then in Cata a simplified version and after that, a most simple way with only 3 options every 10/15 levels.

    They resuced the quantity of choice but made the quality so much better and you didn't lose most of the already established talents.

    If they reduce the number of systems and make the system you most use, a lot more beneficial to you amd enable you to get into other systems in an easier manner.

    Duels can give you some discount on reps, BGs on dungeons and arenas on raids … also vice versa.

    Dailies can give you bonus on any timers you need to wait in the game to be completed like the missions in the garrison … And those missions can increase the dailies bonuses.
    Professions can increase your exp gained from exploration and exploration can add bonus skills to your profession.

    I mean this is just me in 5 minutes imagining the future of WoW, just imagine for a second what can Blizzard do …

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  15. the problem with WoW not changing is that it got left in the dust. it used to be the trendsetter for all modern mmorpg's (but trendsetting requires you to actually keep improving and innovating), but because it refused to improve upon itself other than its accessibility it got left behind by every single other mmo in everything else, FFXIV has the superior story, narrative, tab target combat, and raids, while Guildwars has the superior worldbuilding, mounts and wvw pvp, black desert has arguably the best (lewd) graphics and great action combat, so on and so forth.

    on the surface level wow seems to do better in tab targeted action combat because it has so many more skills than ffxiv, but the problem is that none of these skills synergize or have any combo actions, its so convoluted that you need a guide just to scratch the surface of its systems, and despite its level of customization its pointless if everyone just uses the meta. ffxiv's version is far better by comparison if you consider just how well every skill flows into the next skill, having an actual rotation makes sense beyond just debuffing the target before saturating them with nukes.

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  16. The problem is not that people are saying it hasn't changed and that you agree with that. There are a lot of people how claim wow HAS changed. That's the problem. It really hasn't. People think what is wrong with WoW is that it changed fundamentally. You are missing the issue people are addressing when they claim WoW has not changed.

    These are not "Andys." These are people directly addressing the idea that wow has changed and that is the problem.

    The whole movement for Classic was made by people who claimed WoW stopped being WoW.

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  17. To say the game hasn't changed though is just inaccurate. Some things have changed over and over again, and other things haven't changed at all. The old audience has also changed and new generations of gamers are different than the previous ones and have changed over time themselves. The way to look at it is to view each alteration to the game in isolation as well as how they interact with other systems and see what pros and cons each one brought (EVERY design choice has pros and cons and you have to think about it objectively). Then we can also look at how each iteration would hold up today with the needs and desires of players. From there you should hold nothing sacred and craft the best experience for players (including new players). That is very complicated to do but I think it is the only way forward. This is a complex genre and a complex game, and the people who play them are as well. There isn't a way to simplify it to such a degree.

    There are also the nebulous terms "casual" and "hardcore" that need to be better understood. The ONLY thing that this tells you is time investment, and is independent of difficulty. Some players don't have much time but would like challenging content. Other players have tons of time but they do not want to do challenging content. Every possible combination to every degree is represented, and if you want to cater a game to such a diverse audience this must be a consideration.

    If we wanted to have an overview of what such a game would look like, I definitely agree with the idea of independent systems that give players the agency to do the type of content they want. This aids somewhat with the issue of time investment (although on its own is not enough). I believe another area that would be helpful is to tackle the issue of people falling behind due to time investment. The current approach is catch up mechanics that have expanded to the point of nullifying progression for most players… meaning their progression IS the catch up mechanics. The only way to properly address this is to challenge a fundamental aspect of RPG mechanics that has existed from the beginning, before MMORPGs were a thing.

    Think of an RPG with levels (at a level cap gear essentially serves this same function). You have a plethora of content available, but only a tiny sliver of it is relevant to you. Everything below you in level does not offer useful rewards, and if you are still gaining levels it does not offer xp (or enough to be worth it to do). Everything beyond your level or current gear is inaccessible. The latter is acceptable because this offers incentive to continue; new content and rewards is opened up for you through progression. Now imagine an RPG with scaling mechanics; meaning all content at or below your level or gear level is worth doing because it offers useful rewards and is a form of progression.

    Doing something like this in an MMORPG is far more complex, but if it could be done there are huge benefits to reap. Devs spend so much time building this huge world, tons of dungeons and massive raids, yet only a fraction of it is worth doing. If you missed out on content or out level/out gear it, it is not viable content. This is part of the reason why the world and old raids are dead. The complexity of MMORPGs is the other players; you are required in most content to work with others… so the ability to fall behind becomes a real problem. Considering there is scaling tech for gear and for content, and things like Time Walking and Chromie time exist, this is not an impossible task.

    The ONLY way to solve the issues of time investment would be to embrace this type of scaling to fundamentally change the game. Then, providing content of different lengths to control time in a single play session (think large raids like ICC vs. single encounters like OS in Wrath) as well as different levels of difficulty in content (like in normal vs. mythic raiding) could theoretically cater to all combinations of time investment and skill level.

    This comes with its own set of challenges to implement, and has its own pros and cons. When two players do older content together at a different item level, must it be one of the players that is scaled down, since the encounter can only be scaled to the lowest progressed player? What numbers are presented to the more progressed player, the actual damage done or what they would have done without such scaling? Is a percentage of damage done to the boss a better indicator of skill? How would players feel about such a change in isolation and how does that effect their experience playing the game?

    One pro is that when a raid is no longer cutting edge it is still worth doing, and the cosmetic rewards of doing it are now a status symbol and an accomplishment, but the con is that transmog runs and farming old raids is dead. One pro is that all content is worth doing (meaning more agency to players in what they want to do), with a con that since rewards scale gear cannot be unique (as a particular trinket could ALWAYS be the best upgrade for that slot); it might require rebalancing rewards of older content. A pro is that falling behind in progress is solved as best as possible without the need for most catch up mechanics, but a con could be an erosion of the feeling of power progression. The idea of progression is an illusion, but a powerful one. As you grow more powerful so do your new enemies. Dunking on old content can be a feeling of power, even though most players don't do that because there are not useful rewards for doing so. But does giving them more viable content hurt the feeling of progression? Is simply unlocking new content and rewards enough to provide a similar illusion of improvement?

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  18. Playing world of tanks which is almost as old as world of Warcraft . It’s amazing to see how much a Small game studio can do over the years , how much it evolved , In every way . If you want the model of a long term game with a massive evolution and constant improvement to maps, graphics , models , systems , power Creep , game modes , holidays , so so so much more it’s truly impressive

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  19. Perfect summary as always….I wonder cause I hear the same thing from Asmon. I feel the same stuff as a 30 year old dude. I just won't commit this kind of time, my brother and his younger friends also wont get into WoW they prefer moba,valorant etc, they say fuck wow and this grind cause it's painfull.

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  20. Pretty much most pre-releases they've done have been so epic. The pre-release with The Legion invading all over Azeroth and making players pursue the invasion points and bosses there was epic, the Scourge plague event before Wrath was awesome, going back to Blasted Land to enter Draenor and finding the land changed because the Iron Horde who turned their fate were taking hold of the land was cool, etc… Why not do this more constantly? We need more events that get players to go into the old parts of the place. It'd be cool if they finished cut content in expansions too… It's not like for example that they can't give us the Shattrath Raid they should have for WoD, or give us that crazy frost troll raid they might've given us in Wrath, polishing their old content etc. I dunno, I wanna have reasons to go back to expansions

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  21. I disagree.
    People didnt change the game changed in service of the New player experience.
    They damaged the principle core of the game to favor those who dont have time to play.
    I will bet if the changes back in 2010 from LFG, LFR, store mounts, Vanilla WOW revamp (Cataclysm) and all the shit systems that were implemented in Warlords of Draenor (that are still in the game now ) were not implemented the Sub numbers will be at least 8 million players right now.

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  22. I'm playing Conan Exiles. I can move at my own pace even in multiplayer. So long as I login to keep the decay timers updated which are generous if you connect your foundations (don't set any building parts on grass by itself).

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  23. This video hits the issue right on the head. But what I'd add is that Blizzard needs to stop removing content and making things time exclusive. Bring back t3 naxx and items, scale ZA and let people get original bear, ZG mounts, bring back pre-cata versions of dungeons via CoT or additional portal/toggle. Remove the penalty from missing content and let people go back catch up, re-live.

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  24. Letting players do all of the Covenants right away would have made it feel like there was so much more to do. Something boring to do, but way more than before.

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  25. players asked for a increase above the 25 daily limit starting in WOTLK, asked again into CATA, and MOP. blizzard finally gave in during MOP. if you were trying to grind BC dailies for nether drakes, skyguard, ogrila, shattered sun factions plus cooking and fishing for tabards, reps, mounts and achieves during WOTLK, you needed numerous alts, because your mains had to focus WOTLK, if you started in CATA, you now needed alts in BC and WOTLK to cover those dailies while your main did CATA only dailies, this became greater in MOP and mains had to focus which 25 carefully to do daily, again just like BC which had more than 25 dailies.

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  26. I know that several are going to Pepe laugh and call me a shill when I say this, but I love the mental shift that I've seen from so many players lately about How MMO's should work, & we all know the biggest reason for that lol. I remember when most people, including Acco were all convinced that WoW's format was the way MMO's HAD to be. Having said that, here's the contradiction. I AM one of those, one of those that loves the grind. Having to work for a thing & the feeling of having earned it, but I also agree – it should never be something I have to do, & am punished for Not doing. Games should never ever be a job. When it is, thats when I stop playing (…I say on a Content Creators youtube LOL. The Irony is not lost)

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  27. As someone who works from home and can no life the game, I no longer want to either anyway, the amount of systems and layers upon layers to do things as simple as doing a heroic raid or even getting geared enough to do mythic plus is completely boring to me even as someone who has countless hours to do it, I have the time to go back into mythic raiding, but the problem is that since I quit in 9.0 after how bored I got, I now have to do all of the "content" to be ready to go back into mythic even though fundamentally nothing has changed with the game, I'm just behind on these systems that are going away with the new expansion has caused a culling effect for me where I want to do a lot of the game, but I'm pigeon-holed until I do all the other things I don't want to do.

    Its not even about the time invested now, there's just so much about modern warcraft that is boring as hell, futile because it disappears from patch to patch and gets replaced by even more chores and ultimately stops me playing because its not real progression of your character anymore, the only thing that will be different from 9.0 and 10.0 for my character is 10 extra levels.

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  28. I would say WoW has changed, but it has changed for the worse. They saw how player attention is divided between WoW and other forms of entertainment, not just other games but even things like Netflix and YouTube and instead of adjusting their content to be easier to pick up and drop out of whenever you feel like they instead tightened the shackles and made more busy work in the forms of these systems to "keep players engaged."

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  29. They remove things that work well, then add things that don’t. Eventually they’ll bring back the old good systems but tweaked slightly worse versions.

    The people who replaced the OGs at Blizz do not know how to make a good game. The good parts of the game that are still left are just holdovers from the old guard.

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  30. TLDR – In Wrath of the Lich King literally a new player or returning player could hit max level and walk into ICC the same day if they had a good guild. Possible today? Not even close. Why? All the time gate systems, and there are a lot of them.

    Accolonn – "We do not that we have too many systems, it's that we just don't have the time". Yeah, because there's too many systems… What was required of me in WotLK is a pittance of what is required of me to play the game today.

    WotLK what was required to raid – Having blue gear in ever slot, grind for helm enchant *eventually, both professions 2/3 maxed out, enchants on your gear and they did not have to be the best possible. That's about all that was required.

    In WotLK I spent somewhere around 60 to 80 hours a week playing the game at least. Almost all of that time was spent doing heroic dungeons farming for professions PVP and whatever the hell I wanted to. Almost nothing was required for me to do everyday, I just made sure I had enough money to pay for repair bills and matts for raid (food, pots, etc).

    In Wrath of the Lich King you could literally hit max level and be raiding ICC within 1 to 2 days. Don't try and sell me too many systems it's not the problem.

    There are systems upon systems upon systems requiring you to jump through a plethora of hoops just to stay relevant today.

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  31. Acco, I think your a top bloke but I can not watch your streams anymore because its just wow bashing, yes wow has issue and hope it gets better, you said your point but you keep saying the same thing, this is what you said you wouldn't do, Square enix also fk up, look at there new chokobo game, what a money grab rip, just move on and play what you like and be more positive

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